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The use of puppets

 
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Milan Fiori

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:25 pm    Post subject: The use of puppets Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I know the age groups here range quite a bit, and some of the younger members might not really appreciate this as much as some of the older members. But after a viewing of the Labyrinth I started to think about puppets rarely being used in movies now a days.

The use of puppets have made from the best known figures in the world such as the Muppets especially Kermit the Frog, to Sesame Street and Big Bird! But they've also done more adult things like the Labyrinth or Dark Crystal and even Master Yoda.

Not saying those movies were huge blockbusters (besides of course Star Wars) but they were definitely cult hits that alot of people still adore today. I also don't doubt the lack of use is due to the master puppeteer Jim Henson's untimely death, and CGI become much more popular and realistic. But for an odd reason I'm actually lamenting for the old days of well... puppets!

But what about people here? Should CGI and other advanced techniques rule the day. Or would you mind films and such using puppets and puppeteering every now and again?
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HarmonianHiccup

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I actually would really prefer to see more puppetry in movies. Too often I think that people are getting by with half-baked CGI instead of going to the effort to make something tangible that might and can be much more convincing and effective. Of course, there are times when CG is the best way to go, but I can't imagine a classic movie like Dark Crystal being done in CG. What a waste of a chance for such superb artistry as was displayed!
Also, CG stuff tends to lose the human touch to me. Yoda of the original trilogies of SW had far more life for me than the CG version of him in the new ones.

I feel the same way about the use of models and minatures, though, so I guess it all stems from the same preference.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I can occasionally be quite a fan of pili puppets so yeah...

but I think a big issue is that generally (at least for me) when someone mentions puppets are used the first thing that comes to mind the muppets etc and more obviously aimed at kids puppets and I know people usually don't tie in those kind of puppets with epic/blockbuster movies or what not.

I dunno...I guess the industry needs someone just as skilled as Jim Henson to change the general view of puppets a little more towards "not-aimed for solely kids side" for the use of puppets to get more appeal?
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

making animatronic puppts, is it more expensive than cgi now?

people with lower budjects could use puppets so, not like it will die, plus now people like me can make one and create films.

but people don't want puppets now, unless its a children's show for young young ones.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Animatronics are more expensive and especially more time consuming than CGI. Of course, good CGI is a different story, but if you're on a low budget, you don't want to worry about designing/building a puppet, figuring out how to film it without making it look fake, paying a puppeteer, paying for film if something goes wrong and you need to reshoot, etc. It's far worse with stop motion animation.

CGI can provide some amazing visuals and now we can do all sorts of things that would have been unthinkable before, but people rarely take full advantage of it. It's become a shortcut. But my greater problem with it is that it doesn't seem as magical. When I'm watching the Star Wars prequels, stuff looks cool, but I don't have to wonder how they did that. It's just CGI. But when you watch an older film, you're just in awe of it, trying to figure out how the hell they did that. Sure, it might look cheesy, but you can't just brush it off with "that was just made by a computer".

Of course, sometimes puppets are just frightening. Remember Star Wars Episode I? That Yoda was a puppet, but it was freaky as hell, and I prefer the CG Yoda in the next two films over that monstrosity.

I'm not a fan of Peter Jackson, but he has accomplished incredible work making CG a real special effect and a viable replacement for puppetry/stop motion. Gollum was a terrific feat. Still, as impressive an effect as King Kong was, he couldn't match the original. When King Kong falls off the Empire State Building in the original, you see his face contort into this look of such sadness and despair that your heartbreaks. It only lasts a second at most, but its more moving than anything in Jackson's update. Of course, whether that's due to the effects or to the bloated sentimental hamfisted nature of the latter film is arguable.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

As much as technology to create much more advanced puppetry has been commonplace in the industry for years (horror movies that can afford it will use puppetry in addition to CGI to make gore effects now), but it really is a step back in realism if a film production opts for heavy use of puppetry over CGI. There's pretty much more firms and groups out there who can do CGI-effects in lieu of puppets. Hell, there's machines and programs already for sale which are easily affordable. As long as one has the talent to use these programs and a semblance of artistic talent CGI is possible for even the smallest budgeted film.

Now puppetry requires many kinds of skillsets to make them work well and look real enough on film. There's the Henson and Stan Winston studios which work mainly with animatronic puppetries but even now they're slowly being replaced by CGI-FX studios. I know the Winston firm has supplemented its animatronic work with modelling projects for big-genre films.

I do think films using mainly puppetry will become a dying artform if it hasn't already died off. What I see happening will be more convergence on film's using puppetry and CGI effects. With puppetry enchanced through CGI techniques to make them look more "real" to the general viewing audience.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It will have a niche, like all things do. It's major use has died out, but I don't think it will disappear.

Ironically enough, right before I went to bed, I was watching an adult improv show called "Puppet up!" on tv...

kuwaizair wrote:
people with lower budjects could use puppets so, not like it will die, plus now people like me can make one and create films.

but people don't want puppets now, unless its a children's show for young young ones.


You know, they thought when they made Team America that it would be dirt cheap to use puppets.

$32 million later...
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