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curbing racism on the internet
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:33 pm    Post subject: curbing racism on the internet Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

so here on the news they had a blurb for a future spot on curbing racism on the internet, I found the news artical
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/16/tech/main623499.shtml

so what does everyone here think of this?
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Starslasher

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

When i finished reading it, i was wondering why anti-semitism as if it's a category outside of racism. Isn't anti-semitism racism ?

Anyways, it's nice to see them tackle that problem, but there's no real solution given. US Assistant Attorney General Dan Bryant states that to confront hate speech a promotion of tolerance and understanding was needed, but how exactly would you do that?
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Malvagio

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Racism in general is pretty much reaching just about everywhere....like it always had and probably always will unfortunately. Wether it's on the radio, television, internet...or Barack Obama even accusing Hillary Clinton of being racist. Hmph I just hate those who overuse the term racist and abuse it so they can somehow gain an advantage. It's almost like crying wolf in a sense weird enough.
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Fu Su Lu

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Malvagio wrote:
Hmph I just hate those who overuse the term racist and abuse it so they can somehow gain an advantage.


Thats it. It takes away credibility from the people who really suffer true racism.
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Sniper_Zegai

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think on places like the internet there are alot of people who are ignorant, stupid and most importantly anonymous.

People say alot of weird stuff on the internet knowing full well that nothing can come of it. Its like on Xbox Live, when racism comes up on there I just ignore it knowing that people are only saying stuff like that to get a rise out of people.

I guess for people who are'nt used to the immature side of the internet populated by 12 year olds who say stupid crap to annoy people, the only way this could be stopped effectivly would be to start censoring stuff on the internet and once that starts it would be difficult to stop.
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Leb

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Starslasher wrote:
When i finished reading it, i was wondering why anti-semitism as if it's a category outside of racism. Isn't anti-semitism racism?

That's religious persecution. Jews are not a race; they are people who practice Judaism.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Solutions to combatting racism on the internet can and will always be a slippery slope since the ideal way to do it will be to filter, censor and outright ban such speech and ideas from the net. Whether this means ISP providers will come out with stricter TOS which would ban racist sites and forums or governments are given the necessary software to monitor such sites then ban them.

I can actually see the ACLU taking the side of racist site owners if such solutions ever came to pass. It's the dilemma governments and agencies have to deal with. In a free society any talk of censor or banning certain kind of speech will rile up the majority of the population. Yet, it is this same people who would be first to complain about racist sites and speech becoming too prevalent on the net. I don't see a middle ground on how to stop it without infringing on the so-called right to free speech everyone likes to shout yet are more than willing to suppress on people whose ideas they don't like.
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Jowy Atreides




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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, Jews are an ethnoreligious group, so saying it is purely a religion or purely an ethnic group would both be incorrect.

For me, the responsibility of rights mostly falls with the individual, so I have no problem with people being racist and stupid on the internet. It doesn't matter if you attempt to suppress it via filtering software, they'll always find a way to form a community, as is their right.
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I honestly hate this kind of crap. They think the internet is a cause of the increase of hate crimes why? Just because it's there at the same time as racism? That kind of thinking is so horribly twisted and counterproductive that it makes me wish that generation of lawmakers would retire already (or in cases such as Jack Thompson, die). If anything, the internet causes an increase of awareness of other cultures. When my mom learned to use the internet, she called down to me excitedly saying "I'm talking to a man who speaks Afrikaan!"
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It would be naive to say that the rise in popularity and usage of the internet hasn't had an effect on the rise of racism. Prior to the net racist groups like the KKK, Aryan Brotherhood and the many White Supremacist organization had to rely on face-to-face recruitment and staging rallies. The same rallies where counter-protestors usually will try to disrupt. With the ease and near-anonymity the internet grants each user the need to be less bold in recruitment has died down. Now racist sites will not have to go to a town and try to recruit its young white population to join or listen to them. They can just create a site and let the naive and unwary white teenager happen upon it.

Yes, the internet has made it easier to spread information on other cultures to help better educate people, but it has also had the same effect on those groups who don't want people to be educated. I'm not even saying it's just the White Supremacist groups who have found a dangerous use for the internet. Religious extremist groups of all stripes have mined the net as a way to get their message across and recruit people to their cause.
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Jowy Atreides




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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm of the opinion that if somoene joins a racist group based upon his findings on the internet, he was probably on the verge of joining the group anyway. Of course, even if someone doesn't join an openly-racist group, he may still be racist anyway, but had never found a community. I don't think people are any more or less racist than they have been previously, the internet is simply a new medium.

However, there are lots of other ways to contact people besides the internet and the public square, such as letters and telephones.
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Leb

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Jowy Atreides wrote:
Well, Jews are an ethnoreligious group, so saying it is purely a religion or purely an ethnic group would both be incorrect.

What'd you do, copy the first sentence of the Wikipedia article? In the simplest sense of the word, a "Jew" is merely someone who practices Judaism. Needless to say, it's absurd to think that the definition of "Jew" would also entail that a person must descend from the Israelites, lest they not be Jewish.

Regardless, I sincerely doubt one does genealogy research before slandering someone named Leibowitz, so anti-semitism makes more sense outside of the scope of racism.
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Tullaryx wrote:
It would be naive to say that the rise in popularity and usage of the internet hasn't had an effect on the rise of racism. Prior to the net racist groups like the KKK, Aryan Brotherhood and the many White Supremacist organization had to rely on face-to-face recruitment and staging rallies. The same rallies where counter-protestors usually will try to disrupt. With the ease and near-anonymity the internet grants each user the need to be less bold in recruitment has died down. Now racist sites will not have to go to a town and try to recruit its young white population to join or listen to them. They can just create a site and let the naive and unwary white teenager happen upon it.

Or people who were racist to begin with wont have to do all the legwork to find somewhere to express their opinion, as with any site, this one included. Either way though, it also means they have a place to vent rather than take their agression out on their local minorities.

I also don't think that joining a racist site will cause you to be racist. Like Jowy said, if you're going to join a racist site, you'll probably be racist to begin with.

My theory is a bit more radical on this. Honestly, I can see why alot of stereotypes arise these days. No offense, but there are way too many black people (for example) out there in our generation that listen to rap or R&B, talk in their own dialect, only hang out with other black people, and then start crying racism when someone mentions it. When you see hundereds of people like that and see only one or two african-americans that go against the stereotype, then you have to wonder if racism really is wrong.

Of course I can point to a very simple reason for this: people are able to relate more to someone who looks more like them, or more importanly their parents. You'll typically be able to open up more with someone who appears the same as people you've known all your life. So when there is so much rap and R&B by african americans, yet so few glorified black pioneers in technology or business, they're going to identify based on looks and act similarly. Other people will obviously find that kind of lifestyle annoying and have a right to express their opinions. Just not act on them, which is why the internet is so perfect for them.

Incidentally, Rap and R&B became mainstream around the same time as the internet did. So to be honest, I don't see much more relation between hate crimes and the internet than I do between sexual assault and ice cream (which someone actually tried to publish some time ago.)

And that's for black people. For Mexicans, I think it's more their portrayal in the media (esp the news) as thieves and lawbreakers, though they really dont have someone standing out as a prominent role model for them either. Jews I dont know where the hate comes from aside from "everyone else is doing it", and oriental people are if anything more admirable in their lifestyles with plenty of prominent entrepreneurs and doctors, so hate on them is just baffling to me.

Sorry about all that. I've been looking for an opportunity to say all that since the Don Imus thread was closed on me.
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Jowy Atreides




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No, that is simply not true. Ethnic Jews who do not practice the religion are still considered Jewish, as are people from other groups who convert to the religion.

Not that it's relevant, but I've known this fact for a while now. There aren't many Jews in Dallas, but there are enough.

I do agree that it would be incorrect to brand antisemitism as simply "racist." But, from what I've read at places like Stormfront, the vast majority of their hatred is aimed at the ethnic group, with only minor consideration given to the religion.

And yes, I am a rabid reader of Wikipedia.
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Leb

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Either you misread my post or the point went over your head. I can't really respond to that without knowing.

Anyway, Yvl is to be automatically banned if he makes a sexual assault/ice cream comparison again.
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