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US Elections 2008
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:56 am    Post subject: US Elections 2008 Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Iowa Caucuses are today, and the rest of the primaries will follow in the next few months. Who are you voting for when it's your state's turn?

Last edited by Yvl on Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:57 am; edited 3 times in total
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I want me some Ron Paul love. I think it's possible he could come in third in the Iowa Caucus today, that'd be a platform for New Hampshire.
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ron Paul is my favorite too, but he hasnt gotten enough media coverage to get anywhere. Polls are showing him in last place across the board. So I'm hoping for Obama instead. Clinton is my least favorite candidate right now. I trust the UFO guy more than her.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If the final election comes down to Huckabee vs Clinton, I may just move to Canada. Or Mexico. Or the Atlantic Ocean.

Obama is my choice so far. But really, as long as it isn't Clinton (habitual liar and bullshitter, can't be trusted ever, thinks video games are for children), Huckabee (panders to insane fundamentalists, doesn't trust science, thinks AIDS sufferers should be quarantined, brings up his belief in God at every debate like it makes him a clearly superior leader), or Romney (android sent from future to destroy all civilization).

I'm interested in watching/reading the New Hampshire caucus. They just passed same-sex civil unions into law New Years Day. I'm sure it will be a big issue. Another chance for Clinton to says she supports same-sex unions (when she really doesn't) and for Huckabee to be attacked for what he's said in the past (that gay sex is aberrant and unnatural). Let the mudslinging commence!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The lack of mudslinging is actually quite disappointing really. I've studied the history of American politics and the mudslinging then were worst if not even more untruthful than it is now. So, I see campaign mudslinging as just part and parcel of American politics, if not just politics in general.

I don't trust Huckabee and not just because it just sounds weird having someone being called President Huckabee. It sounds like a Pee Wee's Playhouse character. Anyone who thinks Huckabee is a straight shooter who doesn't flip-flop like Romney hasn't looked at his past record. Huckabee and Romney have more in common than they both realize. Hillary I'm 50/50 on and that's not saying much since it's the other Clinton I want back in the White House. Edwards looks to be trying too hard to act tough while hiding behind his good old Southern boy charm. His name-dropping of Musharraf's name soon after Bhutto's assassination reeked of a poser trying too hard to sound like one of the big boys.

Obama is a nice candidate and very telegenic and well-spoken as politicians are suppose to be. I know people seem to be quite enamored with his talk of new blood in the White House and how he'll work with everyone to come to a concensus even if it means working with opponents who doesn't have his best interest in mind. I just think that in the end he's just too nice to be President. I always looked at the President of the United States as someone who must always stand alone in the end. The office's job is to lead the nation not just through good times but through bad times as well and have the ability to make the hardest decisions even if it means going against their own personal beliefs. Bush stuck to his personal beliefs and it turned out bad for the nation. I think Obama is a mirror image of Bush but of the Democrat stripe. I just can't see him being tough on people like Hugo Chavez, Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Il, or even Osama Bin Laden. This is someone who thinks he can work with anyone and work with them towards a compromise. I just don't see him being the type of commander-in-chief of a nation that will be at war for years to come who will be able to make the difficult decision to send men and women off to war without waffling on it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wake me up when the parties have made up their minds on who to run. I find caucuses and primaries to be a massive waste of time. Just pick someone and go with it. That said, I guess if forced to, I'd rather see Edwards out of any of the candidates. But, I don't vote until it's the real deal. There really isn't any standout good candidate running.
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Edwards doesnt seem to be all that bad, but Obama is the only one capable of defeating Hillary (who I hate for the same reasons as Ackbar, except more frevently. Like Egbert Aethebald fervently.)
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Tony Stark

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I have several thoughts on the upcoming election.

My friend, Dan, recently got back from Iowa campaigning for Ron Paul. While he is not a serious candidate in terms of number of supporters, the fact that his supporters are so fervent is somewhat necessary, in my opinion. His Libertarian views (though he no longer calls himself one) are important to keep in view as he believes in actual conservatism, a policy that this country seems to have lost in the bushes somewhere (pun intended). I would never vote for Ron Paul, because of his believe in "isolationism" and because I believe he will do too much in office. We do not need big, sweeping changes. If the government has 10 ideas, in my experience, 9 of them are going to be bad. A government official with lots of ideas, tends to have a lot of bad ideas.

I shift from liking to really liking Obama. I like his charm and his personality. I think he makes for an excellent leader, and his election could mean a step in the right direction as far as racial equality. The thing that worries me about him though, is that he is perhaps the least upfront about all of his policies. What does he believe? He's never very specific about anything. Lots of politicians say that they have plans to deal with certain issues, when in fact they do not, which says to me, the problem will not be fixed when they're in office.

I really dislike Giulianni because I get the sense that he is extremely corrupt. I feel as though all sorts of scandal could occur if he were elected. I do not have any evidence for this, so my dislike of him doesn't really have much of a real basis.

I also dislike Hilary Clinton, but not all that much. She is dishonest (which is probably an understatement), and like Giulianni seems very corrupt, but from both of them I get an inert sense of competence. I feel as if both of them could handle the office, others I do not feel the same about.

While I severely dislike Huckabee, he's the only one with a decent energy plan.

I like John McCain, but he ran out of steam very quickly.

Fred Thompson I sort of like. He seems to be "lazy like a fox" as Newsweek put it. But, that's what I like. With a democratic congress and his lazy self, absolutely nothing will get done. Which is probably good in my eyes.
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Tonberry

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Doesn't Ron Paul want to pull out of the United Nations or something? I think some of my friends were talking about that. While I do agree with reducing foreign conflict very strongly, leaving the UN, in my opinion, would be a terrible, terrible idea. Ron Paul, I think, is too radical to be taken seriously, and in my opinion, should not be taken seriously. He has good ideas and bad ideas, and I'm unsure weather the goods would outweigh the bads.

Although none of those I've seen are really that special, I think my vote would go for Obama. He's really charismatic and seems to be an honest and conscientious. I don't have too much faith in him, however, because I've learned it's not wise to put too much faith into politicians today, which is even wiser for me, because I'm a bit of an oddball as far as political policies are concerned. From what I know about him, he'll do the best job in office, working in ways I would want him to. However, he may disappoint me, and I'm determined to look at him objectively and not fall victim to deceptive charisma, which is all too common in United States politics today. That said, however, I do have lots of hope for him.

Forgive my ignorance, but could someone give me the most popular reasons why Hillary Clinton is so unpopular? More than half of the people I talk to--even though I live in a largely liberal area--hate her guts, and none of them can really give me reasons why they do, other than "I hate her because everyone else hates her." Since word of mouth is failing me here, I thought I might ask. What are the main reasons why people dislike her so much?
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Leb

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ron Paul feels federal court rulings should be non-binding to states. That alone makes him an nonviable candidate.

And considering Hillary Clinton is the front-runner in national polls, it's hard to consider her "unpopular." She just causes love-hate feelings in voters, which she's tried to counter by humanizing herself in TV ads (her mom lives with her at home!).

CNN has projected that Mike Huckabee will walk away the victor in Iowa, which will be a huge boost to his campaign. My prediction is that Mitt Romney will take a fair slide in the polls, with John McCain being a more dangerous threat to Huckabee on Super Tuesday.

Ah, on the Democratic side, CNN has just now projected that Barack Obama will win in Iowa. I doubt Clinton will slide much more than she has, but expect to see Edwards continue his rise (especially if he comes in second, which it's looking like). I don't see this giving Obama any leverage in other states.


Last edited by Leb on Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Firstly, its because of her opposition to video games. That alone would be enough to hate her the way we hate Fred Thompson (the guy who blamed Columbine and every incident since on Video games), but she doesnt stop there! She's been accurately protrayed as someone whose life revolves around power, but not in the same way as the other candidates. Like her husband, she wouldnt think twice about selling out the country (NAFTA) if it benefited her. That's the impression I get anyway.

Then there's the fact she's been going behind everyone's backs to try to set things up to suit her - case in point, she once tried to rig the questions asked to her during her campaign. And of course she was famously screwed over by the fact she answered both "yes" and "no" to a question about drivers licenses for illegal immigrants in one breath.

Obama is winning the iowa caucuses right now by a small margin on the democratic side, and the zealot Huckabee is winning by a large margin on the republican side. Clinton is in third for the democrats.

The most solid ticket for the democrats right now that I can see it Edwards/Obama. Give Obama the experience he needs and he could be unstoppable in 2012.
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Leb

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Democrats traditionally support stronger restrictions on video games. A lot of forum-goers seem to think this is an odd position to take, but this is like any other medium where you need to regulate it in some way.

I've always thought it was funny that, despite most young forum-goers identifying themselves as liberals, they are adamantly against this kind of regulation. It's obvious that their love of video games clouds their judgment.

Anyway. You have to remember that Ivy League families and ex-presidents and their relatives have many opportunities available to them, should they seek them out. I see nothing sinister about Hillary's political aspirations-- it's the state of politics in general, and someone else would do it if she didn't. You'd be naive to think that she is the only one who practices her lines or chooses who gets to ask her what at town hall meetings.

And Obama has a sizable lead, you realize. Huckabee has a 9% lead over Romney, Obama with a 7% lead over Edwards and Clinton. 66 and 89% of precincts are reporting in, so this vote is over. Second, third and lower guys might switch places, but the winners are more or less decided.


Last edited by Leb on Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:30 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Ley

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Tonberry wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but could someone give me the most popular reasons why Hillary Clinton is so unpopular?


It could be something to do with a percieved Bush/Clinton domination at the highest level of politics. 8 Years of Bush Senior, followed by 8 years of B.Clinton, then another 8 years of Bush. Seems a bit stagnant to me to have another potential 8 years of Clinton.
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Leb

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Political families are political families. If people didn't like them, they'd stop voting for them. I don't see Massachusetts driving the Kennedys out of town.

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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bully for Huckabee and Obama but I don't see these results as affecting the upcoming primaries too much. As history has shown winning the Iowa Caucus does not make one President. Bill Clinton, both Bushes and Reagan never won Iowa. All the Iowa Caucus does is show which of the candidates can win when it comes to the conservative voters in the nation. Iowa is a heavy religious conservative state which made Huckabee a popular choice. If Huckabee wasn't running I would even say that Sam Brownback would be in his place right now.

Right from the beginning Barack Obama pushed his religion right at the forefront even going as far as to court the religious right which typically votes Republican. Neither candidates has shown that they have any concrete ideas with how to deal with not just the domestic problems the country is having but also international ones. Obama has tried to show that his ideas are concrete but watching him on Sunday mornings on Meet the Press and other political shows on Sunday shows me someone whose inexperience will not avail him well when dealing with seasoned state leaders. Yes, he is charismatic but charisma can only take someone so far and it almost derailed Bill Clinton's first-term in office with his bumbling of the Somali problem. And yes Clinton was also inexperienced but his win was mostly due to elder Bush screwing everyone over with his no new taxes bit then signing into law new taxes.

I still say that in the end, like it or not, Hillary is the one person on the Democratic side who scares the GOP most. If Obama does win the nomination I have a feeling the GOP attack dogs will tear him down through every means until he either breaks does the same or ends up looking toothless unable to fight back.

Edit: Also, Elder Bush never made it past 4 year.
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