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Is it wrong to hope your team loses?

 
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fuji




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:23 am    Post subject: Is it wrong to hope your team loses? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What do you think?

For me, I am watching my Maple Leafs every day they play and I just get angry lately.... not upset from losses, I don't even enjoy the wins. I just get pissed off and lately I've found myself hoping my team loses.

Not for draft picks mind you... but because I want the Toronto Maple Leafs to gut the President of hockey operations Richard Peddie and the General Manager John Fergusun Junior. The only way this happens is if the team continues to lose and not make the playoffs.

You have to understand, as bad as the team plays, the arena will always be sold out. The team makes millions... seriously. The team also loses millions every year it doesn't make the playoffs. So, the team needs to lose badly and then the GM and President will be fired.


Do you feel it's wrong to hope your team loses? Any Detroit Lion fans have any thoughts on this as the Matt Millen situation may be somewhat similar.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yes, it's wrong. Do you know why?

Because no matter how much the team loses, the ownership will never change unless the people run the owners out of town. You'd think losing would be one way to accomplish this, but even if Detroit were to dump Matt Millen because of a losing record, William Clay Ford Sr would still be the Lions' owner, and he doesn't know shit from Shinola. Hell, he signed Millen to a contract EXTENSION despite the Lions having an NFL worst record over the past five years.

If the Lions fans ever want to run "Mr Ford" out of town, I'd be for that, but too many idiots associate his name with Ford Motor Company, which is a fallacy, because while William Clay Ford is the grandson of Henry Ford, his only connection to the company was developing the Edsel, which was an absolute failure, and led to the board of directors chasing him out of the company. At the time (1964) an NFL franchise didn't mean much of anything, so they bought it for him and told him to do as he pleased with it... And unfortunately... He's done just that.

Unfortunately for you, the Maple Leafs losing is probably not going to accomplish what you want to see. You might think that the problem lay with the President and GM, but just remember... Who hired those guys...?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
You might think that the problem lay with the President and GM, but just remember... Who hired those guys...?


He has a point, isn't Toronto owned by an association of teachers via their pension fund or something along those lines?

I experienced the same thing last year and it went on for the whole year Fuji even after we changed GM and coach we never got consistency and had a record worst season, it's a fairly painful experience when it gets dragged out so far and as much as you put a brave face on it and say it doesn't even matter anymore it will still get at you losing over and over. It did me anyway.

As for changing GM and coach without the ownership changing over well that's a slightly different matter because it's working out for the Flyers so far, then again I never have once felt that Snider was the issue - the man spends to a loss with the team in an effort to win the cup and even if we haven't won for a long time with him as owner I know he badly wants it, probably as much as I do so I have never felt that Ed Snider wasn't doing everything he thought was in the best interest of the organisation.

The leafs have been stuck in this sort of perpetual mediocrity for a long time and have just now started to slip under after tredding water for so long, I agree something has to be done but does Toronto have the pieces to make those moves and do it? Are they will to trade off Sundin for someone young and hungry? I know for sure McCabe has to go, hopefully they find an idiot taker at the deadline for him, Kaberle would be about the only one on that team I'd call absolutely untouchable (in the realms of reality, you're not going to get Crosby offered for him). Maybe they should hit up some offer sheets on players in the summer, there are some good ones coming up for instance Richards and Carter. The Flyers are in a precarious position and one (Carter more likely) might end up being gone as a result.

If you tank enough this year you might get Tavares, that would be a result and a half for you because he's looking really good so far.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Logically I can understand rooting for your team to lose, such as in the situation of wanting managers and such to get fired or wanting to get that high round draft pick, but emotionally, my competitive spirit just won't let me feel that way. Even when my team, the Dallas Cowboys, were going 5-11 for three straight seasons, I couldn't bring myself to hope for Dallas to lose. I'd think about it, sure, but when the game came on I couldn't help but root for them to win.

I dunno, I just have a hard time wanting my team to lose when watching a game, even if it would somehow be better for the team in the long run.

I can understand how you feel though Fuji, as I've experienced that same anger over bonehead personnel or on the field decisions that are made. I still to this day remember a game that happened when the Cowboys went 5-11. They had a chance to win, it was 3rd and 10 or so, and they lined up in an I formation with a fullback and had Troy Hambrick (Troy Hambrick!?) run the ball up the gut. I wanted to run up to Dave Campo (then head coach) and slap him. But, I can't complain too much, since the Cowboys haven't had anywhere near as bad a history as a lot of sports franchises out there. The only team I'm a fan of that comes close is the Sacramento Kings, and I don't even really pay much attention to basketball.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think the point people are bringing up is a good one. If the person who hired these coaches and GMs remains the same, how can you expect things to be different if new coaches, GMs and so forth are brought in by the same guy? Now, if losing brought about the sale of the team to new owners, and they were committed to winning, which means profits, then losing might be something to look forward to. But even then, I personally wouldn't be able to do it. I might lose faith in the team's ability to win close games, but I won't be rooting against them. I guess I just recognize the fact that there are going to be stretches where the team just doesn't play well. These stretches might last for years. I understand that the Leafs haven't won the Cup since the late 60's, but they've made playoffs a lot, so I guess it begs the question, is it better to make the post season and lose like the Leafs, or would it preferable to just be crappy year in and year out like the Lions tend to be?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't think it's wrong, per se, or at least perhaps not any more wrong than rooting for any team to lose.

However, I do think it's a bit of a fallicy. So long as owning a team remains a rich man's or rich woman's playtoy and they aren't wholly invested in the improvement of the team, or at least invested in the sport itself, not much will change.

And it's pretty hard to vote out the owners without having multi-millions to play with.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I suppose it all depends on how intense of a fan you are of that particular team. No matter how bad the Steelers are doing I've never not wanted them to win. There've been situations where I don't mind them losing, but never where I've wanted them to. Take this season especially - with Pittsburgh in an almost guaranteed playoff position I didn't mind one bit them losing to the Jets. If I were to rate my favorite teams I'd probably put the Jets 4th, so I hated seeing them 1-8, especially in a season where the AFC's not its usual dominant force. Both teams played a respectable game, a loss at that point in the season didn't hurt the Steelers much, and a win for the Jets saved them from being the second worst team in the league statistically. Similarly, I'm not going to be cheering for them over New England. To actually cheer against them though, I don't think I could ever do that. In the worst of cases I'm apathetic towards whether they win or lose.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

When I was watching the games, morally I felt like I was doing something wrong... the same feeling when I do other things I shouldn't...

On one hand, I see the point you guys make, and it is a good one. The people in charge are a teachers pension, a bank and a person. The teachers pension owns like 50% of Maple Leaf Sports Entertainment (or MLSE)

I can accept the fact that the MLSE wants to make money and they are very good at it in the city I live. MLSE will do what it feels will make the most money. I can live with that, understand that and all... The big person that I dislike from that corporate entity is Richard Peddie.

For those that do not know this, Richard Peddie was president of Basketball operations. After years of mediocrity with the Toronto Raptors he was relieved of his position and they hired a whole new staff, great coaches, great GMs. Immediately after that, Raptors go to the playoffs after years of being garbage.

So, I am wondering why this man who's already a failure in one sport officially and still cannot do anything for the hockey side to begin working. So yeah... the MLSE will make a change if it means no playoff revenue. The cheap seats sell for $100 during playoffs, ice-level like $500. Pop, food and beer all see a 20% increase in price. Not getting 2 games of playoffs at home costs MLSE tens of millions. The owners will make the change because it directly affects their pocketbook.


Moving on to JFJ. This man is an idiot. He has the IQ of a raisin. His moves are well documented and he's screwed the team over for the next 3 years because of the contracts he has signed and where all our money is tied up. Did you know over 70% of our yearly salary is tied up in goalies and defence yet we have given up a league leading 87 goals (at least 10 more than the second worst team Atlanta who lost their starting goaltender). That salary is tied up long term too.


I'm torn... I was watching the Leafs Habs game... and I cheered when Sundin tied it up... but then I felt pissed off because it meant JFJ the GM and the President Richard Peddie would still have their job at the end of the day.


exile wrote:
Maybe they should hit up some offer sheets on players in the summer, there are some good ones coming up for instance Richards and Carter.

Yes, the FLyers showed the leauge you can reload in one season and become competitive (even after giving away Pitkanen whom I thought would hurt real bad). However this is difficult for the Leafs for a number of reasons, least of which are the long-term contracts we have at goaltender/defence. Do I really want JFJ in control after what he's done to the team already?



ss wrote:
These stretches might last for years.

40+ years to be exact. Well before I was born. The Leafs, for as long as I've been alive have been a crappy team. Sure with Gilmour we made a run... but our team was playing on fumes and emotion... we weren't "good" by any stretch and at no time during my life at least were we considered a "cup contender" in any city except Toronto (where every year we'll win the cup if you ask the fans).

Comparing making it into the playoffs and not in the Lions is slightly different. In the NHL, 50% of the teams make the playoffs.




Perhaps it isn't wrong as Sophita says... it just isn't the most productive thing to do. I mean every team will at some point be the laughing stock of the league. I'm sure all of your favourites have experienced it.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I would'nt say I hope my team loses I just get used to seeing Northampton Town lose and not do well. So its a bit wrong if you hope your own team to lose, its better to just not care.
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fuji




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I feel happy now. John Fergusun Junior was fired and Richard Peddie is going to step away from hockey operations in the new year.

I feel as though my wishing the Leafs to lose wasn't that bad even though I battled with it in my head and heart for a while. A lot of Leaf fans felt this way it seemed as the days led up to the firing...
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

fuji you shuld just come over to the darkside and root for the Sharks.

I'm surprised it took the team this long to rid themselves of JFJ. I don't think him being gone will have a major and positive effect on the team. Now the Leafs will really have to think long and hard about who their next GM will be. Maybe it's time for the Leafs to go on a major rebuilding program. It will make for a couple years of even worst performances but at least any incoming GM will rid the franchise of the mistakes of the past couple years.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm a huge Kansas City fan.

When they were eliminated from the playoffs, I wanted them to lose out. It's entirely for having a higher draft pick.

See, the way I see it, I don't think it has to do as much about intensity as much as it does me caring about my team's future. I want my team to be better in the long run. They're not that good, they need either the leverage of the draft or the decent rookies from a weak draft to break through the hump. A few extra wins won't do them any good, they won't make the playoffs. But it could drop them out of their current spot, which is either a 4 or 5 pick. It will give them a chance to address their needs, either through the draft or through trading spots.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm in the same boat as Shad, I'll never root for a team I like to lose because even if they're the worst team out there, I still want to see them win. A great example is the New York Knicks. They suck so badly this year yet I still desire to see them win. I know they don't have a strong shot at winning enough games to make the cut and get into the playoffs but I still hope for it. Even when they are eliminated I won't root to lose because I'm not like that. Each loss I see hurts, even if a win is equally as meaningless.

When the Bills dropped from contention, I still wanted them to win every game. Even if they were in the position of the 49ers or Jets (oh god.. I never root for a Jets win). where losing gets you a better draft pick, I still root for the win. I think losing for draft picks is dumb and cheap.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sadly, yes. It seems I feel this way whenever the Broncos take the field these days. Maybe it's because I felt that axing Jake Plummer the way they did was a bit premature or maybe I think Shanahan should start fearing for his job. Whatever the reason, this team did NOT gel at all last season. I have supported them for more than a decade, but after some of the shenanigans that occurred on and off the field, I began to hope that other teams would punish them (which they did). The only bright spots for me this season were Champ Bailey (surprise, surprise), Brandon Stokley (appears to be a team player), Brandon Marshall (except his DUI), and Jason Elam (the team MVP...). Other than that, I can honestly say that I began to watch their games to see how disgusting things would get.
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