ESL and dialects (inspired by the Banner Competition)

[Glen Cott]

I have a question for anyone here who has learned english as a foreign language.

Do you learn to write honour, armour and colour (English) or honor, armor and color (American)?

The perversion of the English language is something which has always irrationally annoyed me, but I just want to know.

[Saben]

I teach English in Japan and in most cases they teach American instead of English. Usually the individual teachers will use their own native language (English or American) but it can be awkward at times when the text books are using American English. When faced with such a situation I will usually take a few moments time out to say "in American (amerikago) they spell colour C-O-L-O-R, but in English that is used in Britain, Australia, New Zealand, usually Canada, South Africa, Singapore and all other countries except the USA, real English (eigo) we spell colour with a 'u'. You can use either but sometimes your school teachers might want you to use American, I think you should use English, though."

Sometimes I am forced to put on a yank accent in order for people to understand me (gotta emphasise those 'r's) but for the most part my well spoken Australian English is quite easy for my students to understand. I guess the vowel sounds are more similar to Japanese which makes it easier for my conversation students to listen to me.

I hate American, though and I refuse to speak it wherever possible, I try to teach "capsicum" instead of "green pepper" and "car park" instead of "parking lot" but it is hard when all the text books are American. My biggest hate, though is when teachers correct a Japanese kid for saying "tomato" (to-maa-to) with a British accent or saying "toile please" when they want to use the toilet. With the former I mean for the love of all that is good, tomato is the same in both languages, so let the kids say it with their native accent and it will sound correct in English, there is no need to make them say "tomato" (to-MAY-to). With the latter, sure "toile" is kind of a mispronounced way of saying "toilet" but all you need to do when correcting them is make sure they emphasise the final T, there is no reason to get them to say "bathroom", especially since in Japan the toilet is always in a seperate room (similar to Australia) and is NOT in the bathroom like in most American houses I noticed while there. It is very frustrating working under such conditions and one of the things that annoys me the most, but apart from that the work is pretty okay and it pays well, so I guess I shouldn't complain.

[iscalio]

[adrich]

Typically I think you'll find that Latin America and many Asians countries learn the American spellings whereas in Europe and Africa the British ones would be more prevalent.

I could always be mistaken, though.

[Sophita]

[Rheo]

in Hong Kong we learnt the British spelling (since we used to be a British colony)
but usually the teachers would accept both American spelling and British spelling, as long as the whole assignment is in the same kinda spelling (if you use American spelling, stick to American spell for the whole thing). so both color and colour are correct.
Or some teachers would tell you they want British spelling and nothing else.
but I am in America now, so I usually spell things the American way.

In Hong Kong, the toliet is usually in the same room as the tub.
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[Aurelien]

[Glen Cott]

I very glad that people use the English variations when learning it abroad. The American changes are something that greatly annoy a lot of British people, I mean, we don't mind the accent changes or using diiferent words, but when they accually begin to spell things differently, it's just wrong.

And don't get me started on AluminIum!

[Midori]

Oooh! Rheo is from Hong Kong!! *waves*
Hmm..anyhoo, I seem to be too late for the banner design *dang!!*
I also grew up with the British spelling at school but I sorta prefer the American spellings (for some words only)

[adrich]

Languages change naturally over time, and for a very long time spellings in English weren't even standardized. The primary (and often the only) function of language is a tool for communication, and the changing of a few spellings doesn't inhibit anyone's ability to express themselves or to be understood.

As far as I'm concerned anyone who has a problem with American spelling needs to get over it. It's not going to change any time soon and shouldn't be a big deal anyway.

[Glen Cott]

That's why I said "irrationally" :wink:

[Saben]

I don't have a problem with American except when people start trying to pass that off as English or at least as more correct than British English. Languages evolve and change over time, of course they do, but when languages begin to branch off from each other, then I think they need to evaluate how close they are to the original language and rename themselves accordingly. Maybe there isn't a lot of difference between American and English, but it is the arrogance and ignorance surrounding the American language that gets to me. It is not a superior form of English, it is a simplified (aka stupified) form. Sure you can have your own dialect based accents and even spelling, but Harry Potter did NOT need to be translated from English into American, it is not a bad thing for kids to be exposed to alternate terminology from a young age. It is how they learn. The moment books start to get translated from one dialect into another I think it is about time that the dialect is called its own language. I can understand Americans almost perfectly, but Americans quite often just give me blank stares when I use Australian terminology (which is basically British) and that rather makes me ticked.

[Aurelien]

Well the language itself is still the same, which is English. It's just that they are two different types of English though still similar enough. Hence, one being American English and the other being British English. So it's clear enough that there is no need to have American language and English language.

And I do believe that Harry Potter (or other novels, books, etc) need to be translated into American English for American readers. While it's not a bad thing to be exposed to alternate terminology, it's still important to know how to spell properly according to the language that you use in your country. For those who use American English, they should have books in American English instead of in British English. I mean, let's reverse the role. If you're in Australia and there's an American book, obviously you'd prefer to read it in British English rather than in American English. While it's not necessary to have it in British English, it's still preferable for those who use British English.

[Rheo]

*wave back to Midori* XD
I think we are the only 2 Hong Kong people on this board... right?

Does simplified mean stupified? I am not so sure, I like my things simple. I dont prefer British English over American English, but thats just me. Maybe because I am stupid XD

I agree with Bugg's last part. In Chinese writing, we have simplified Chinese and traditional Chinese. In Hong Kong we learnt the traditional writing, and I have never try to learn the simplified one. But even the first time when I picked up a book that is written in simplified Chinese, I have absolutely no problem reading 98% of it. There are a few words that I cant figure out, but its only several words in a book that is some hundred pages. (and I eventually guessed the meaning of those words from the sentenece) On the other hand, I know people that only knows simplified Chinese have a hard time learning and reading the traditional one.
The simplified ones are designed to be more easy to learn. Its not so strange that people who learned the simplified ones have a more difficult time reading the traditional one, taking a few parts of the word out is easier than adding a few paerds of the word in.
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[Saben]

Spelling changes, sure I can deal with those for localisation purposes even though I am almost positive we don't have American books translated into English in Australia. But when you have terms like "car park" changed into "parking lot" I start to worry about the future of society. Any person with half a brain, even an inbred hick from Virginia SHOULD be able to work out what a car park is, even if they don't commonly use the word. It is times like these when I start to worry about the future of society.

(I split and moved this because it is getting rather offtopic)