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Zorak's eye....or lack thereof
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Flare

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:30 pm    Post subject: Zorak's eye....or lack thereof Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So, I was looking at Zorak's picture and I noticed something. He has a massive scar on his eye and the eye itself appears to be missing. How the heck did that happen? He doesn't seem to be the warlike, type. Did he participate in the War of Succession, maybe? It just seems odd given his peaceful demeanor.
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iscalio




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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

He's village chief of a village in which all men are warriors, so obviously he's a warrior himself. I'm not sure what makes you say that he "doesn't seem to be the warlike type". He's even carrying a sword around and is wearing light armor.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

He might have lost it to Neclord, although it probably would have been mentioned.
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Flare

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

iscalio wrote:
He's village chief of a village in which all men are warriors, so obviously he's a warrior himself. I'm not sure what makes you say that he "doesn't seem to be the warlike type". He's even carrying a sword around and is wearing light armor.
He just doesn't seem the type who would be doing a lot of fighting. I mean, yes, he's in a village full of warriors, but there has to be some who aren't as warlike as the others, otherwise it'd just be mass chaos. Zorak seems to be one of the more peaceful men in the village, except when his family is threatened of course.
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Last edited by Flare on Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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eXistence of Fly

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

iscalio wrote:
He's village chief of a village in which all men are warriors, so obviously he's a warrior himself. I'm not sure what makes you say that he "doesn't seem to be the warlike type". He's even carrying a sword around and is wearing light armor.


Given that we only see him in his "old age" as a head of state instead of a warrior the armour and sword could be ornamental for anyone actually knew since he didn't actually use it in any regard. I think what's being asked is if there is anything to enlighten us on his past where from what we see of the present he is more a historian & storyteller than a warrior.
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iscalio




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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Flare wrote:
He just doesn't seem the type who would be doing a lot of fighting.

How so?

Quote:
I mean, yes, he's in a village full of warriors, but there has to be some who aren't as warlike as the others, otherwise it'd just be mass chaos.

Warriors can be disciplined. According to your argumentation, each gathering of an army should result in mass chaos as well, since all the soldiers are warriors.

Zorak is intensely proud of Klift's heritage and the ideal of "fighting to the end, never giving up" he represents. So I think we can be sure that he is a tenacious warrior.

Fly wrote:
Given that we only see him in his "old age" as a head of state instead of a warrior the armour and sword could be ornamental for anyone actually knew since he didn't actually use it in any regard.

Flare claimed that he "doesn't appear warlike". I pointed out that carrying weaponry much rather hints towards being warlike than the opposite.
I never claimed that all men carrying arms are warriors. I just said that weapons are certainly not primarily an indication of a peaceful person.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Every man in the Warrior's Village is a warrior (or a child or on a journey to become a warrior).
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eXistence of Fly

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

iscalio wrote:

Flare claimed that he "doesn't appear warlike". I pointed out that carrying weaponry much rather hints towards being warlike than the opposite.
I never claimed that all men carrying arms are warriors. I just said that weapons are certainly not primarily an indication of a peaceful person.


So a guy who wears armour and carries a sword is an automatic warlike person, it is completely irrelevant and unfathomable that it could be a front, ruse, guise, or a traditional garb, and the only solution is that Zorak is a warlike warrior? So in that regard, since Hoi dressed the same as Riou he wasn't a shifty bastard looking for a free feed he was actually a trained tonfa user and leader of men. If it smells like chicken, looks like chicken, but tastes like turkey, chances are it's a turkey, we simply don't know enough which is why the question was asked.

You did claim that all men in the warriors village were warriors however, and by that chain you then claim that all men in the warriors village who have a type of blade are warlike, would you call Hix a warlike a person then? Since I didn't really see him running off to kill shit, or an exception to the rule?

You're far too dismissive in the things that we don't know about Zorak, for all we know he lost his eye on his right of passage and then ran home crying and spun a tale.
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iscalio




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You're weird, Fly.

Quote:
So a guy who wears armour and carries a sword is an automatic warlike person

Of course not. Did you even read my post?

To repeat myself:
I wrote:
Flare claimed that he "doesn't appear warlike". I pointed out that carrying weaponry much rather hints towards being warlike than the opposite.
I never claimed that all men carrying arms are warriors. I just said that weapons are certainly not primarily an indication of a peaceful person.

I don't say that armor and a sword make a person warlike. I (and reason, by the way) just say that they are much rather a hint towards warlike tendencies than towards the opposite.


Fly wrote:
You did claim that all men in the warriors village were warriors however

Not I make that claim, I just repeat it. The claim is made by Suikoden.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well you do not have to be in a war to get injured. He is the chief, and he does live in a village where they must train a lot, probably with their weapons. It is probably not too far fetched to say he got it when training, or helping others train, and there was an accident. Or when he was sparing, or training to Become a warrior, then once his goal was met reverted to a less peacful manor and that is how we met him.
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iscalio




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden 1 is a game full of stereotypes, and facial scars like Zorak's are stereotypical recognition features of seasoned warriors, especially in Japanese pop culture.

Zorak is the chief of the Warrior's Village (a name and location that is heavily stereotypical), so it is reasonable to assume that his scars are supposed to signify his warrior status and past. He is the work of game designers, after all, not a person from real life. If his weapon, armor and scars were just a "ruse", or simply misleading, I think the game would have told us.

Those among you that try to see him as a peaceful man also seem to miss my convincing Klift argument I made in an earlier post.


Urn wrote:
Well you do not have to be in a war to get injured. He is the chief, and he does live in a village where they must train a lot, probably with their weapons. It is probably not too far fetched to say he got it when training, or helping others train, and there was an accident. Or when he was sparing, or training to Become a warrior

Zorak has two facial scars that clearly stem from two different cuts. Since they have exactly the same shape and color, it seems likely that the wounds were inflicted during the same event, by the same item. This more or less rules out a sparring accident, since his sparring partner would obviously have stopped attacking after inflicting the first facial wound.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

eXistence of Fly wrote:
You did claim that all men in the warriors village were warriors however, and by that chain you then claim that all men in the warriors village who have a type of blade are warlike, would you call Hix a warlike a person then? Since I didn't really see him running off to kill shit, or an exception to the rule?


Of course Hix is a warrior! Suikoden I and II shows his journey to become one!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think we are mixing confusing being a warrior, with being belligerent.

Its like ninjas. Ninjas can fight, but they are not always fighting. Sometimes they sneak around and do not have to. So by the same principle, just because Zorak is not always swinging his sword around, does not mean he would never fight.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hayashi Ujitsuna wrote:

Of course Hix is a warrior! Suikoden I and II shows his journey to become one!


Read; warlike not warrior. Hix's travelling on his rite of passage was fraught with him only really showing bloodlust or wanting to fight when it involved Tengaar being in danger, that is not the characteristics of one who is warlike and instead a born protector. I am not disputing that any of the men from the Warrior's Village aren't warriors, I disputed iscalios claim that "guy with sword, that's hella warlike!" ** by using Hix as an example. (And also because he's then tied into Zorak with Tengaar being his daughter so the same reasoning could then apply in that Zorak would only draw on his maternal instinct.)



** which is a claim he never made.
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There's no official info on why Zorak has a huge scar, and we'll probably never know because he's a relatively unimportant character. But considering the fact that he's a Chief of the Warrior's Village, he was probably given the scar by the character designer (Kawano) as a way to make him more warrior-like.

He may not necessarily be warlike (as in, taking an aggressive liking to war), and indeed the Warrior's of Warrior's Village are never described as a warlike people. However, they have fought to defend their own freedom in the past as they did against Hikusaak. It wouldn't be too far fetched to think that Zorak was involved in some minor skirmish and suffered his wound, or he may have even been wounded during his "Trial of Manhood."
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