Suikoden Utopian and Informational Kosher Omniscient Xperience

Suikox Home | The Speculation Shelter | Tablet of Stars | Suikoden Timeline | Suikoden Geography |Legacies


  [ View Profile | Edit Profile | Nation System | Members | Groups | Search | Register | Check PMs | Log in | FAQ ]

No Country for Old Men and There Will Be Blood discussion (spoilers!)
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Media
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ujitsuna

Red Shoes Dance


Joined: 24 May 2006
Post Count: 4823
Location: Pale Plains
936547 Potch
12000 Soldiers
675 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Spoilers!



No country for old men is certainly a good movie - until the end. The ending is annoyingly anti-climactic and a pointless car accident is not enough to make me feel I got closure. The whole movie was good, but I felt that the movie got sidelined as soon as the cowboy (Lou) was killed, and not even by the assassin. I know it's based on a novel, but they should've adapted it for the silver screen.


Last edited by Ujitsuna on Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Tullaryx

Custodiae Corvi


Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Post Count: 5577
Location: Apacheta
4092785 Potch
200 Soldiers
20 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, your reasoning is one of the ones I hear a lot from those who ended up not liking the movie. But then again I think you might've thought the movie was a straight out and out thriller which it would've been if the closure you wanted was done in the way you wanted it to be.

The Coen Brothers have always done films which at times never really made any sense. The McCarthy book is one that actually makes sense if the reader actually bought into what McCarthy was writing about and that was that life never goes according to plan. The death of Llewelyn Moss doesn't go according to what the audience think is going to happen. The story builds things up in a way that everyone thinks that Llewelyn will either kill Chigurh or the other way around. If life only worked like that then things wouldn't be so depressing for people.

I think people bought so much into the boogeyman that was Chigurh and the tenacity of Moss to stay one step ahead that they forget that the Mexican drug smugglers who originally were there to sell their heroin wanted their money. So, while everyone, including Llewelyn, were so focused on keeping Chigurh away they lost sight of the fact other factions were also after him. That's where the shock of that moment when the audience, through the eyes of Ed Tom Bell, see Llewelyn Moss dead after getting gundowned by the Mexicans at the motel.

The film could've ended right then and there but then there was Chigurh's promise to Llewelyn Moss of what would happen if he just didn't give the money back. Carla Jean would get a visit and she did. The car accident actually was another shocking sequence which pretty much points out the randomness of life and existence.

I've asked the question of life's randomness to people who have seen the movie. How often have something out of left-field suddenly happen to you which you never thought would happen yet it did. The car accident was just that for Chigurh. He drove away in a leisurely and unsuspecting manner yet all it took was something random as someone running a stop sign to slam into his car.

The entire film is all about that randomness. From the old man who Chigurh kills for his car down to Llewelyn finding the massacre of the drug deal gone wrong. It also makes a point to say that violence never really has any rhyme or reason. there's no order or logic to it no matter how people try to explain it away. The scene with Ed Tom Bell's father in the end points this out. Ed decries how violence has become too savage and meaningless with the young people of the day (remember this was set in the early 80's when the drug cartels were pretty much waging war in the streets). Ed's father who used to be a sheriff just reminded him that things were just the same in his days and his grandfather's day going all the way back to Texas' earliest days. The methods and objectives may change but the violence never did.

No Country for Old Men is really a difficult film to see as something to enjoy for its visceral thrill like the Jason Bourne films. It pretty much requires more than one viewing to even grasp whats being told. And even when someone who has seen it many times thinks they've gotten a handle on things another viewing ends up showing another angle. The book and the film never meant to satisfy with a prototypical film ending. It was a look into the life of Ed Tom Bell and his final realization that no matter what he does he truly never had control of his life or anyone else's.

Chigurh knew this hence the game with the coin flip. He knew everything was as random as a coin flip. Of all who ended up being dead the only one who had control in the end was Carla Jean who refused to play Chigurh's game. If you watch that scene once again the moment she refused to play his game there's a slight surprised and uncomfortable look in Chigurh's face. Of all the things he had control over one person decides to not follow it and go their own way even if it meant dying. And really, we never really know if Carla Jean dies.

So, I can understand why you may have thought the film was just good and not great if you thought it was something other than what the film really was about. That's the thing about this film, and to a lesser extent There Will Be Blood, even those who didn't like it or not like it as much still end up discussing the finer points of the film. One way or another the film dug in deep to make one uncomfortable to want to talk about it if just to fnd some sort of explanation or closer, so to speak.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Ujitsuna

Red Shoes Dance


Joined: 24 May 2006
Post Count: 4823
Location: Pale Plains
936547 Potch
12000 Soldiers
675 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I got all the philosophical crap, it just didn't make for a good movie ending in my opinion. :P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Tullaryx

Custodiae Corvi


Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Post Count: 5577
Location: Apacheta
4092785 Potch
200 Soldiers
20 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lol, this is where I think we shall agree to disagree. :)

At least, you did get the all the philosophical crap as you say. Some have just decided they didn't like it because it didn't end up being a shoot-out in the end.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Shrew

The All-Star Rock n' Breakdance Electronic Band from Shenzhen


Joined: 18 May 2004
Post Count: 2328
Location: Chefurbo Kaimuttal
237023 Potch
110 Soldiers
100 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Is this really all that different from the ending to The Sword of Doom? These abrupt endings always leave me a tad angry and befuddled at first, but upon further reflection I see it as the perfect way to end the film. I certainly got angry when Sword of Doom freeze-framed on me, and that film may offer even less closure than No Country, albeit in a more exciting and bloody manner.

I can understand being angry at the ending, but I don't think the movie gets sidelined after Moss exits. Rather the viewer gets sidelined early on into expecting a routine thriller; the movie is always riding the same track. I don't think the film could end any other way.
_________________


Fear our Vagueness.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Ujitsuna

Red Shoes Dance


Joined: 24 May 2006
Post Count: 4823
Location: Pale Plains
936547 Potch
12000 Soldiers
675 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Shrew wrote:
Is this really all that different from the ending to The Sword of Doom? These abrupt endings always leave me a tad angry and befuddled at first, but upon further reflection I see it as the perfect way to end the film. I certainly got angry when Sword of Doom freeze-framed on me, and that film may offer even less closure than No Country, albeit in a more exciting and bloody manner.


It wasn't abrupt like Sword Of Doom (still waiting for those sequels, Tatsuya Nakadai is still alive...), it ended except in a very obscure way. Mainly focusing on philosophical truths instead of any closure or plot. I was expecting a show down between Tommy Lee Jones and the assassin, maybe it is a good thing that it didn't do what was expected, but I know after seeing the ending I would have prefered the one I imagined.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Tullaryx

Custodiae Corvi


Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Post Count: 5577
Location: Apacheta
4092785 Potch
200 Soldiers
20 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, you seemed to have made my point from earlier. You wanted to see the ending you imagined. Does McCarthy's own vision and story have to be changed dramatically to suit an audience's taste or should an audience just sit back, watch, enjoy (or not) and, at the very least, be mentally stimulated by something not the usual fare from Hollywood.

I think this is where audiences who complain about Hollywood always rehashing the same thing over and over and having no originality comes out as being hypocritical. It's not that they hate all the rehashes and same-old, same-old conventions films usually push on people. They don't like it when it's not done well. Give the audience something that shocks them from their expectations of how a film unfolds and people complain. There really should be either one or the other. Either admit that what Hollywood has been doing was never the problem or take the chance to see something different.

I know some who say they hated No Country for Old Men, but still say that it was one of the best films of the year. They were able to separate liking or not liking a film and the talent and great execution in making it. Sometimes a film doesn't have to be liked by someone to be considered great by that same person. I feel the same about Atonement. I didn't see the film as being anything great to warrant it as one of the top films of the year but it entertained me as a piece of British period romantic piece. I've listed certain films as best of the year despite not liking it just because as much as my personal feelings tell me the film is not my cup of tea I can't discount the fact that such a film was well-made and deserving of being called one of the best. Best example is and will always be, Citizen Kane.

I don't particularly enjoy that film, but I can acknowledge the fact that it's deserving of the title as one of the best films of all-time. The genius of Welles is on the screen with every shot framed and with each edit. The same goes for the Coen Brothers and PT Anderson's films. They're two films difficult to comprehend or accept due to their unconvetional styles but there's no denying that they're two of the best films of the year.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Calvin

Legions of Zontar-Killers


Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Post Count: 2445
Location: Blight's Bay
817540 Potch
25 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I just watched There Will Be Blood yesterday, and I thought it was a very good movie. Personally, I loved the ending. It seemed to fit the film, and was true to the man. My favorite aspect of the film was probably how the film slowly peeled away the layers of Plainview's personality until you get to the end, when its as if the full weight of his person is bare and naked. I also liked the imagery when it came to the scenes involving oil, treating it as if it were blood.

Plainview is one of the most interesting and compelling characters I've ever seen in a movie. He committs acts of unspeakable brutality, but even in the end, when he's an old man who turns away his son and beats Eli to death with a bowling pin, there are glimpses of humanness in him.
_________________

I changed the number on my phone so you can't call me up at home, and you can't say those
things to me, that make me fall down on my knees.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Timbo

The Wandering Prophets


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Post Count: 2964
Location: Darja
410837 Potch
300 Soldiers
835 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I watched No Country for Old Men today on DVD and I still loved it. The second viewing had a much different feel than the first. With the first viewing, I was sucked in to the suspense of Chigurh and Llewelyn's 'cat and mouse' game, but I wasn't so sucked in this time, as I already knew what would happen. Not being sucked into the suspense made me not get so caught off guard by Llewelyn's death and it wasn't so out of the blue this time.

I think Shrew nailed it. The first viewing, I got stuck into the suspense and I thought the film was something it wasn't, with the second viewing, I saw the film more as it was and picked up on more foreshadowing of Llewelyn's death and it didn't feel like it was out of nowhere.

I think what the Coens did wonderfully with this film was make it so the suspense of the film sidetracks you into missing aspects that would make the shocking scenes less shocking. The viewer is immersed in the suspense and surprised by events that aren't so surprising if you aren't so immersed.
_________________
"There is no normal life, there's just life. Now get on with it"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Media All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
suikox.com by: Vextor


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
  Username:    Password:      Remember me