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Running Up The Score
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Parallax

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In my opinion, there are far too many teams in the NFL who spend an obscene amount of time in the second half trying to work down the clock and nurse a tiny lead. Often, this backfires. It allows teams to come back with late-game rallies and punish you.

They do it because they don't want turnovers, of course, which can swing the game around. They also do it to protect their starters. They also do it because half the teams in the NFL have an embarrassingly bad red zone percentage, and end up kicking field goals from the goal line far too often (today's MNF is a fantastic example of this).

...So if you have the ability to bury your opponent beneath a score that they can't come back from, all that is is cementing the win, in my opinion.

I neither like nor dislike the Patriots. I think they deserved to be fined for getting caught cheating, and if the reason they're "running up the score" is indeed that they're mad, then that's stupid. Yes, other teams are probably cheating. But the Patriots got caught, and they were punished. I don't see any problem with that.

I do see a problem with trying to pretend that the Patriots only win because they're cheating. If you look at the talent they bring to the field and tell me they can't beat these teams without their defensive signals...sorry, but I'm going to go ahead and say you're wrong. New England has all of the weapons a team needs to be good, and Tom Brady is a good quarterback, which ties everything together. They should be winning - especially against a very mediocre Buffalo, and horrible Miami and Jets teams. And they should be winning by a lot.

If you look at the Redskins game, Cassel did have two touchdowns against Washington. They did pull Brady in the third quarter. They pulled Brady against Miami too (and we should also note that they put him back in after Miami scored four touchdowns. It seems to me that the Patriots just want to make sure they win...) So I don't even see where some of this argument is coming from.
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Milan Fiori

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I was listening to the radio earlier and they were talking about this. And read off a quote by Gibbs that I think fits this pretty well.

"I have no problem with what they did on the field today. I've always been of the opinion if you don't like what they're doing, stop them. That's how I feel"

As for players going after Brady for a cheap shot as revenge, if they did that then I guarantee that the very next play they'll need a stretcher to get them off the field, because the Pat's offensive line will not show mercy.
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Geddoe

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I forgot to mention earlier that I am a serious Redskins homer in my post. And while I'm still bothered at the running of the score, the point does remain that if the Redskins were any good and were that upset during the game about the score, they should have done something about it and tried to stop the Pats.

The only comfort I take from this is that Wes Welker scored two TD's, ensuring a victory for one of my fantasy teams [just...not the SuikoX fantasy team. >.>]
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Arevus

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I agree with the majority here. This is professional football. These players get paid a ridiculous amount of money to play as well as they do, referring to the Pats, and as well as the Skins. There are no children on the field to coddle to make sure their feelings aren't hurt. These are grown men that play the game knowing full well that they may get humiliated in any game situation.

Regarding the recent game, did anyone else besides me love Tom Brady for deciding to go for out when it was fourth and two when they were already up 45-0 or whatever it was. I think I said to my friends, "He is such a dick I love it," referring to the running up the score thing being associated with being a dick.

If you've got it, flaunt it!
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Sierra Mikain

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This goes to show you that being the class of the nfl and actually having class don't go hand in hand.

If you're up by 40 some points and are still running 40 yard posts and seems, then I wouldn't feel the least bit bad if a defensive player decided to put a helmet to your quarterback's knee. After all, you're trying to deliver a blow to the other team's morale, why not take a shot to the balls yourself?

It's not about getting a victory, it's about making the team they're playing look as bad as possible. It's about class, something the Patriots haven't had in years.

There's a lot to be said about guys like Barry Sanders and Ladanian Tomlinson who score touchdowns and don't make a fool of themselves. No friggin props. No obscene gestures or excessive celebrations. Just hand the ball to the ref like you've scored before and you're going to again. It's classy and professional. It's.. mature. You don't need to prove to everyone that you're a superstar, because if you're good, we'll know.

You run up the score, all you're doing is rubbing salt in the wounds of your opponent. The Pats running up the score on the pitiful Skins is like me beating up a 60 year old guy and then kicking him while he's down. Hell they were throwing 50 yard bombs so it's more like me doing atomic elbow drops. It's pathetic.

You guys said it's professional football. Well, maybe it's time the Patriots started acting more professionally. There's no doubt they're the best team in the NFL, but I couldn't honestly hate an NFL team more than I do the Pats for the past two years of their BS.

And after it all, you gotta love a guy like Joe Gibbs who doesn't complain about what happened. He doesn't have anything to prove because he knows he's a good coach and so do we. The Patriots and Belichek should take notes on everything he said and what it means to have class. To not cheat. To not dance on an opponent's logo while they're trying to shake hands. To not run up the score against opponents who obviously aren't in your league.

I truly believe anyone who thinks running up the score in the NFL is okay is not a real fan. Like I said, once you're professionals, it's time to start acting like it.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Actually, I think I see myself as a real fan. While I will agree to disagree with people on the running up the score part of things I will say that some of the best coaches in the league past and present have run up the score on other teams. I know Walsh has done it in the past and I know Gibbs has done it as well. So, saying Belichik has no class because his team piled it on a team with the 5th ranked defense in the league tells me that the Redskins had the talent but not the focus to do their job.

As a fan those who root for the Redskins should be pissed off at their team for not doing what they were talking up all week long before Sunday's game. Where was Landry and Taylor putting the hits on receivers to make them wary of running their routes unimpeded. I won't say that the Redskin secondary played even worse than the Dolphins but they played just as soft when in past games they did a great job in punishing other teams' receivers with timely hits and jamming them up early in their routes.

Maybe my take on professional athletes is different from some, but if they're getting paid millions I better see them on the field giving their all even if its to the detriment of the other teams ego and pride. I've played organized football in high school and have been part of huge blow outs againts my school and as much as I was pissed off at the other team I was really more pissed off at myself for not finding a way to stop them.

I've heard talk that maybe the Patriots should have let up in the third quarter. How exactly should the Patriots have let up. I never get a straight answer from detractors. I get answers like put in Cassel when it was 38-0. Sure, that's fine but what would have happened if suddenly Cassel did another "Miami" and turned the ball over giving the Skins a couple quick scores. Some have said that the Patriots should have run the ball the rest of the way. That's a great idea as well, but the Skins weren't able to stop them from getting good runs to keep drives alive so what happens if they did run the ball and the Skins couldn't stop them from marching down the field to score "with the running game".

While people keep saying it should've been easy for New England to have stopped scoring on the Skins once they had the huge lead it's not the Patriots' or their coaching staffs job to do that. Their job is not to make the opposing teams' job easier or keep them from having their feelings hurt. They're professionals and make millions and any sort of pity they deserve for being humiliated ended once they begun making their fortunes playing the game. I see it differently when it comes to prep and college sports.

It's easy to hate teams that are successful in what they do. I hate the Colts and Manning, but it doesn't make me think they shouldn't do all they need to do to destroy another team. The Colts' mystique as one of the elite teams in the league comes from the fact that they can and have run up the score on teams in the past. They don't do it as often but can, have and will.

Does having the score run up incur anger from fans of teams who fall victim to it or fans who don't like the team doing the running up? It really seems to cut across partisan lines. Even old school players have nothing against it but they do point out that retribution would probably happen in-game even if it meant serious injury to players on the opposing team. But whining about it afterwards sounds more unprofessional than just taking your beating, no matter how embarrasing it may be, and move on to prove that they're better players and that one game was an aberration.
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Sierra Mikain

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There's no need to run deep posts on 1st down when you're up 38 to 0 with 6 mins left.

This isn't about maintaining a victory. Did you even watch the game?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yes, I did and if the Skins wanted to keep them from doing that then their corners and safeties have a job to do and prevent it from happening. The fact they didn't speaks not just to the Pats being the better team but to the Skins defense being more about talk rather than action.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sierra Mikain wrote:
This goes to show you that being the class of the nfl and actually having class don't go hand in hand.


Ah yes, the #1 overused word in sports today: class.

Sierra Mikain wrote:
If you're up by 40 some points and are still running 40 yard posts and seems, then I wouldn't feel the least bit bad if a defensive player decided to put a helmet to your quarterback's knee. After all, you're trying to deliver a blow to the other team's morale, why not take a shot to the balls yourself?


Hypocrisy at its finest. Waaah. Patriots piss me off because they run up the score... so I won't care if someone intentionally hurts one of their good players! Yeah, really "classy." Running up the score now = physically (and intentionally) harming another person. Of course, you already admitted you wouldn't feel bad if someone did that. Definately "classy."

Sierra Mikain wrote:
It's not about getting a victory, it's about making the team they're playing look as bad as possible. It's about class, something the Patriots haven't had in years.


Let's be honest, the Skins were that bad.

Sierra Mikain wrote:
There's a lot to be said about guys like Barry Sanders and Ladanian Tomlinson who score touchdowns and don't make a fool of themselves. No friggin props. No obscene gestures or excessive celebrations. Just hand the ball to the ref like you've scored before and you're going to again. It's classy and professional. It's.. mature. You don't need to prove to everyone that you're a superstar, because if you're good, we'll know.


Yeah, LaDanian Tomlinson is "classy." Just ask him.

Sierra Mikain wrote:
You run up the score, all you're doing is rubbing salt in the wounds of your opponent. The Pats running up the score on the pitiful Skins is like me beating up a 60 year old guy and then kicking him while he's down. Hell they were throwing 50 yard bombs so it's more like me doing atomic elbow drops. It's pathetic.


Yeah, but the 60 year old man was trying to beat you over the head with his cane first. He just couldn't hit you so you defend yourself. Nothing wrong with that. I suppose that if Washington didn't want to get beat, they could have just not shown up. That's a good idea.

Sierra Mikain wrote:
You guys said it's professional football. Well, maybe it's time the Patriots started acting more professionally. There's no doubt they're the best team in the NFL, but I couldn't honestly hate an NFL team more than I do the Pats for the past two years of their BS.


Ah... so here it is. Hater!

Sierra Mikain wrote:
And after it all, you gotta love a guy like Joe Gibbs who doesn't complain about what happened. He doesn't have anything to prove because he knows he's a good coach and so do we. The Patriots and Belichek should take notes on everything he said and what it means to have class. To not cheat. To not dance on an opponent's logo while they're trying to shake hands. To not run up the score against opponents who obviously aren't in your league.


Damn... I didn't realize the Washington Redskins did not play in the NFL. I'm sorry, I am completely wrong. The Patriots shouldn't have even shown up. And to celebrate a huge win (only one guy doing it no less) in a playoff game that no one gave them a change to win? Blasphemy!

Sierra Mikain wrote:
I truly believe anyone who thinks running up the score in the NFL is okay is not a real fan. Like I said, once you're professionals, it's time to start acting like it.


I honestly don't think you're a real fan, so since I said that, I must be right.
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Milan Fiori

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Let's keep things a bit more civil. This is a hot topic, but the Mods won't hesitate to close it, if we think things might get out of hand.

Quote:
I neither like nor dislike the Patriots. I think they deserved to be fined for getting caught cheating, and if the reason they're "running up the score" is indeed that they're mad, then that's stupid. Yes, other teams are probably cheating. But the Patriots got caught, and they were punished. I don't see any problem with that.


They and their fans aren't angry that they were caught cheating. Fine, everybody does it, we got caught. Oh well. It was a pain, and it was annoying other than that it didn't matter. But people then started to bring the Patriot's skill and past victories into question, saying they didn't earn or deserve their Superbowl wins, and similar things. (If I remember right, even other NFL players said it.) This is what makes them angry, and want to shut people up about it, and I don't blame them.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't agree with running up the score like the Pats have been, but it doesn't really bother me. I'm sure some of my teams have done it in the past. Maybe not to the degree of the Pats, but its still occurs. I can see how some people could percieve it to be classless...especially the players on the field.

Quote:
Hypocrisy at its finest. Waaah. Patriots piss me off because they run up the score... so I won't care if someone intentionally hurts one of their good players! Yeah, really "classy." Running up the score now = physically (and intentionally) harming another person. Of course, you already admitted you wouldn't feel bad if someone did that. Definately "classy."


Would you be surprised if it happened? Leaving your players out too long while they pile the score up is bound to result in injuries, possibly intentional. I doubt opposing teams like having deep post routes thrown against them when they are losing bad and there is little time left. Course, it just goes back to the point of trying to beat them on the field.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

Would you be surprised if it happened? Leaving your players out too long while they pile the score up is bound to result in injuries, possibly intentional. I doubt opposing teams like having deep post routes thrown against them when they are losing bad and there is little time left. Course, it just goes back to the point of trying to beat them on the field.


I said this before, but if another team injures a Patriot's player, and they think it was on purpose? The very next play, the Pats will make sure that player will need a stretcher to be taken off the field.
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Lord Rengo

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Samurai X wrote:
Would you be surprised if it happened? Leaving your players out too long while they pile the score up is bound to result in injuries, possibly intentional. I doubt opposing teams like having deep post routes thrown against them when they are losing bad and there is little time left. Course, it just goes back to the point of trying to beat them on the field.


Yes, those things happen. If it's accidental, then no one really can be blamed. A RB is more likely to get injured running the ball to run out the clock than Tom Brady is staying in the game for an extra 5 minutes. He has started every game since he took over for Bledsoe and played the game for 4 or more quarters in most of them. The chance of him getting injured in a blowout is not any greater than in a close game where he would be in. Players go into a game expecting to play 4 quarters (or more in the case of overtime), so playing them for 4 quarters (even though Brady has come out of the game early 4th in most of the games this year) is nothing new.

If Brady does get injured intentionally, I will be a little more pissed off at the player who injured him more so than Belichick for keeping him in there. It's more of an asshole move by the player than it is a stupid move by Belichick and if it's obvious it's intentional, I would expect a suspension and a fine. Anyone who says that they deserved it is just as much an asshole.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm honestly surprised that there are people who think that "running up the score" is a bad thing. Running up the score can only happen because of two things:
1. The winning team is really THAT good
2. The losing team is really THAT bad

Either way, it's the reality of what's really going on. It's the fact. And it's not just in NFL. It's in every sport. The most common thing that I've seen about not running up the score is in the NBA. That is totally understandable to me because NBA's schedule can be tight with teams playing twice in three nights or something like that. Hence, the need to stop running up the score by resting their best players has a point. It is to protect their own players.

However, if there is no such need to do so, then there's no reason to not run up the score if they can. One thing that I think haven't been mentioned yet is the fans. Fans paid money to attend the game. And they don't want to watch second-third string of players playing "just to make it look as if it's a competitive match". They want to see the best players of both teams playing seriously trying to win. If you want to watch "pretend competitive event", go watch WWE or TNA or something where it's scripted but with lots of action to entertain the fans (nothing wrong with wrestling btw, I like watching it too ^^).
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yes, they have a chip on their shoulder this year. Yes, Brady has a top receiver and yes, I think the Pats are just destroying teams on purpose.

To be fair though; they can't run out the clock. They don't have, as Brady put it, "Clock Killing Corey" anymore. They do have Maroney... but he's hurt and pounding the rock with him probably won't help that.

The thing is though, the Pats can dink and dunk with the 3-7 yard pass plays. They won 3 super bowls doing it. Throwing the long bombs and attempting to score each and every play however is kind of going overboard.

I honestly think it was the video scandal that prompted this and they're going to take it out on every team they play. Good for them. I don't look down on them or consider them classless... Would you rather they kept the score at 2TD difference and risk a few key mistakes letting the other team steal a victory?

...as our buddy Herm Edwards said.... ...do I really need to quote it?
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