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Running Up The Score
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Running Up The Score Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ok, the halfway mark of the 2007 NFL season has come and almost gone (still the crappy MNF game to play out) and one thing seems like a given and it's that the Patriots seem to be on a mission to destroy every opponent they play week in and week out. The Redskins was suppose to be the major testing ground at just how good the Patriots team really was. I thought the Cowboys game was suppose to be the testing ground but it didn't pan out. The same for the Week 2 game against the Chargers.

I think only a blind man who has been living under a rock for the past 6 months would not know that the Pats are really piling it on against the opposing team. This was really made clear by the 52-7 (I was surprised the Redskins even scored in the waning minutes) score when the final gun sounded on the Patriots-Redskins game. This score looked more like a Division 1-A team playing against a Division 1-AA team in college.

Does anyone else think the Patriots have just gotten pissed off about all the accusations of their Super Bowl wins being tainted that they're taking it out on the rest of the league. Are they really running up the score? Should they take out their starters when they have such a huge lead in the 3rd quarter? Maybe just start running the ball to waste time is one thing I've heard mentioned often.

Does anyone else think this is bad form by the Patriots? Or is it just that the Patriots are so good that no matter what they do it won't matter if it's the second-string QB out there taking snaps they will score on the opposing team.

I've always wondered if there's such a things as an unwritten rule that tells coach to let up on the other team if and when the score gets too ridiculous. I mean Pee-Wee leagues have their mercy rule, but apparently pro league do not.
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If a team refuses to play it's best team and try it's damn best I have no interest in watching. Pee-wee leagues have such rules to spare small children's feelings. If professional athletes need that sort of childish reassurement then something is rotten in the state of Denmark (American football).

If teams need to ease up in order to pretend to make things look competitive then the problem isn't with Super Awesome Team but with the league and how everyone else sucks.

It's professional sports, both teams play the best players they can, in the best positions they can, with the best tactics they can in the best conditioning they can. If they don't it crushes the point of the entire season existing to find the absolute best team.

The Patriots are so good they're manhandling every other team in the league and are storming to victory with high scores? Good, they deserve it then. It's how mature professionally done sports should work.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Teams with large leads don't ease up and put in second string guys in the third and fourth quarter for their opponent's sake - they do it because they're afraid they'll muck something up or suffer an injury if they continue to play full out. The idea of just winding the clock down with secondaries towards the end is to stop the other team from being able to make a comeback far more than it is an act of respect. The Patriots are so confident that this isn't even a concern to them and they can just keep playing full force. The Pats "running up the score" has earned nothing but respect for them in my book. If you can end every regular season game with a 40+ point lead then do it, and let the world know you're not all talk.

If there were any doubts about the Pats deserving their last three Super Bowl rings, there will certainly be none if/when they take it this year.
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Milan Fiori

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I have to agree with John on this one. A team just shouldn't give at the end of a game, just because they're crushing the other team. I've actually left Pats games early, just to beat the rush when the score was like 42 to 10, thinking that the Pats wouldn't bother scoring again.(Yes, I've always thought it was an unwritten rule that teams don't humiliate other teams like that. Not that I agreed with it) And Brady ends up scoring once plus a field goal in the last 3 minutes of the game.
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Last edited by Milan Fiori on Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm going to respectfully disagree with everyone here.

I'll point this out: The Eff You TD

When the standings come out every week, they only tally up whether you win or you lose. If you win by one point, dagnabbit, it's a win. If you win by 40 points, hey, it's a win. So theoretically, the size of the win should not matter. I think it's the Pats thumbing their nose at everyone else in the league as if they're the 70's Raiders or something. The league needs a new set of 'bad boys' and apparently they're it. I honestly think they're a bunch of cheats [anyone notice that the Redskins couldn't communicate between the boxes and the field at one point yesterday, and that the rule is if the opposing team can't, then neither can the Pats?] considering their previous filming practices and they're just going to take it out on the rest of the league for getting busted.

Here's hoping that all of that stops when they play Indy this week.

I really do think it's wrong that they run up the score on people. I get the idea that the point is to win the game, but to bury the other team like that is just rude and unsportsmanlike. The true hallmark of a winner is to win as graciously as you lose, and apparently the Pats can't seem to do either. After a certain point spread, send in the second teamers and say, 'Okay, we've pretty much proven after three quarters that we're better than you' and just leave it at that.

I'm in the minority, I know - but I wanted to put that out there.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't follow the NFL but wouldn't points scored be used to separate teams with the same amount of wins, or whatever?
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Sai Fujiwara

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Morrison, you're correct. It would.

I'm lovin' it personally.

I'm not this huge Patriots fan, and I'll admit that I rooted for Philly in their last Super Bowl appearance, but this shit is entertaining. Maybe it's because Tom Brady is a Michigan alumni that I'm liking this, or that it really serves the rest of the league and its fan base justice for all of the cheap shots and vilification that were fired their way.

Yeah, Mme, I read the article. And if I were Bilichick or Tom Brady, I'd feel just like Bryan Cox did during that game in Buffalo when he raised both his middle fingers to booing fans, as he ran out to the field. The "Eff You" TD is well categorized, and I totally agree with it's implementation. And I hate to tell it to ya, but there's no way Indianapolis stands a chance against them, unless Manning & co. can rack up at least 7 touchdowns, because that Indy defense isn't exactly looking like shooting stars.

I think JBL brings up a good point. They're professionals who're paid to give it their all, 100% of the time. The only problem with this, is that there is a lot of pride in professional football, and it only takes one cheap-shot to send Brady or Sammy Morris out for the year.

Still, it'll be damn amusing if they go 16-0 and win the Super Bowl. Don't get me wrong, I'd go apeshit if somehow the Lions made it in and upset them, but we all know that's not going to happen this year. If that DID happen, you bet your ass, I'm buying a Jon Kitna or Roy Williams jersey. :P

Now, if the Pats actually go undefeated and win the Super Bowl, I'll go and buy a Tom Brady jersey. Not 'cause I'm a Patriots fan, it's 'cause I think Brady is the best player in the NFL now, playing on the best team.

And he's a Michigan graduate. :P

Oh yeah, and I can also say this because the odds of that happening are pretty damn low, but I'll eat my words if it comes to pass...

I seriously hope Tom Brady breaks all of Manning's old records and makes all the Peyton fanboys cry in their beer at the end of the year. I've always said Brady was the best pure QB in the league, and now it looks like he's on a mission to prove it to everyone else.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Stopping a team from running up the score is easy, you only have to stop them from scoring.

The Pats are pulling no punches because they know that no team is going to pull any with them. When you start to try to play down to your opponent is when you get upset by a team like Buffalo. If they can't take it, retire and become a used car salesman. The idea that egos need to be coddled is complete BS.

Joe Gibbs knows it. He said right after the game that he had no problem with the score. Why? Because he knows his players, particularly rookie players, are going to learn a whole hell of a lot more from playing the best that teams will throw at them than they will from playing second and third stringers.

Bill Belicheck knows it. He knows that every ball isn't going to bounce his way. He knows that every thing isn't going to be perfect everytime, despite everyone's best efforts. He has to make sure his team is prepared to go all out the entire game, which won't happen if he pulls his starters out at half-time. You don't just learn from practices, you learn from games as well.

The only hallmark of a true winner is their ability to win. All "true winners" have cheated at some point. Most do things they aren't caught with, but they've all played outside the lines in some way. All that other BS can stay in the self-confidence leagues. None of this "oh my God, they need to act like saints and be good role models for all the little children of the land." Respect isn't something given out to everyone, it's something earned. Charles Barkley said it best, he's not a role model. Athletes do not play to be role models, they play for their livelihood. On the Patriots, no one short of Tom Brady is guaranteed anything, they have to prove they belong there.

They're not running up the score to make themselves out to be the bad boys, they're doing it because they have to be ready to play all out the entire game. They will have to. Teams always have to at some point.

If a person cares so much about the fragile psyche's of athletes, they can coach a youth soccer team or something. No one actually involved gives the Pat's scoring a second thought, whether it be their team, opposing teams, or the league.

John Morrison wrote:
I don't follow the NFL but wouldn't points scored be used to separate teams with the same amount of wins, or whatever?


In playoff situations, when it happens, the tie-breaker is typically who won when the two matched up during the season. That's been the case for as far as I've been aware and I'm not sure what would happen if, for some reason, they didn't play and were vying for a playoff spot.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This isn't the first time I've had this discussion. Most my friends hate the Patriots whereas they are one my favorite teams since I lived in Boston some years ago. So they always seem to have some sort of argument ready for me as to why I should hate the Pats as well.

The topic of this discussion was their latest one and the one that I only needed one line to shut them up.

If the Pats were the ones getting the scores run up on them we wouldn't be having this discussion. Not that I am accusing anyone here of simply trying to bash the Pats like my friends were since this is a much more objective discussion.

The Patriots are an amazing team with a whole lot of talent. They have been dominant in the past years and the reason a lot of people are getting upset with them is the same reason people who don't even like baseball will say they hate the Yankees. No one likes a sport when it's not competitive anymore and while it is the NFL and the Patriots could be beat any week they are starting to look like they are just too good which rubs people the wrong way for whatever reason. Hell if a team does this sort of thing in college people just laugh.

So no I don't think the Pats are running up the score intentionally. No I don't think they're terrible people for picking on the poor little Redskins or other pro football teams. It's the NFL may the best team win.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm of the mindset that they are professional players who get paid quite a bit to play a game that at times players lose focus and the drive to go all out. Even Randy Moss who seem to have gotten a resurgence in New England has admitted to losing his attention in the game when he was with the Raiders.

While it does seem like it's bad sportmanship to run up the score on a team that clearly is overmatched and hasn't shown they could stop the opposing offense (and defense for that matter) Belichik said it best during his post-game interviews. He's been on the other end of such blow-outs and as defensive coordinator it was his task to prepare his defensive team from scoring. He knows that he can only control what to do when it's his team on the field. Gregg Williams should've been doing the same.

I think a lot of the complaints of unsportmanship by Redskin players and even players from other teams who have been steamrolled this season by New England comes from player pride and ego. These NFL players are suppose to be the best in their sport. Not every college player ever gets a chance to play as a pro and those who are talented enough to become an elite within this fraternity of players even have a bigger ego and pride that needs constant stroking. Players don't like being embarrassed on national television especially when it clearly shows that they may not be as good as they thought they were when put up against a very determined, well-coached and equally talented team.

The same could be said about other sports where one team begins to run away with the game. In baseball, just this past season we had a game between Texas and Baltimore where the Texas Rangers scored 30 runs on a baltimore team who couldn't pitch, hit, catch or run to save their lives. Even when Texas began subbing certain players with their back-ups the runs continued to pile on.

Sometimes blow-outs just can't be stopped and complaining about having the score run up on their team speaks less of the other teams integrity and more on the heart of the team being blown out. What if the Pats did put in their second-strong offense in the 4th quarter and suddenly the Redskins started playing like the Texans and began getting key turnovers for TDs. I'm sure the Pats will be second-guessed as to why they would even allow a team with talent to have an opportunity to mount a come back.

Also, fans and writers who point out that belichik shouldn't have treated Hall of Fame coach Joe Gibbs and his team like the Pats did this past Sunday should know that Gibbs has had a hand in scoring late TDs through the air with his first-string offense team as recent as the 1991 team Qb'ed by Mark Rypien. While Gibbs may not have liked what happened Sunday he knew well enough not to open up that can of worms. People who say Bill Walsh wouldn't have done what the Pats did never saw some of the huge blow-out games the 49ers had against teams.

Great coaches also have a tendency to be very ruthless in how they treat the opposing team. Steve Mariucci was seen as too soft and nice a coach because he let-up on the gas when the Niners were ahead. At times it worked and the Niners won and at times the other team caught up and won the game. I think fans would rather see a head coach and a team who constantly played at perfect efficiency on both sides of the ball even if it means embarrassing the other team.

The only thing I see with such blow-out games are player from opposing teams --- past, present, and future --- wanting to get back on the Pats (or other dominant teams) by purposely going at a player to hurt them. What would be more unsportsmanlike..a team running up the score on another team or a team who is being blown out having some of its player purposely hurting the other teams players as payback?
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Milan Fiori

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Pats are my team, they've been my team since long before I can remember, because they were my dad's team, and my grandfather's team, who was living in and around Boston at the time when the Boston Patriots were first created, we even have one of the original Pat the Patriot helmet.

So now that you know my background, I can say that the article Ged's posted kinda really got to me by labeling them "villains". Because -especially- up here they're not, to us their more like rebels proving they're the best no matter what anyone says. Yes, they got caught doing something wrong, and if it had just stopped at that things would be different. But people had make a big deal out of it, and blow it into this huge thing. Well I'm right there with the Patriots saying "Eff You". People just had to putting down the Patriot's past victories. This is what they get in return. I hope the Patriots ram the ball down each and every one of their opponents throats.

(By the way. Totally not angry here. Just a fervent fan is all.)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Its kind of exciting to see all these touchdowns and I figured Tom Brady and the patriots just wanted to clear their name and show off that it wasnt the "cheating" that led to their outstanding playing and record on the field. However, I do not like the attitude that the patriots are showing by doing this. I was watching the Patritos versus the Redskins game and even though the Patriots were up by so much Tom Brady was arguing with the referees and getting all pissed when they got a 5 yard penalty. When your up by that much you should just be enjoying the win and the game itself in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Jinx wrote:
I was watching the Patritos versus the Redskins game and even though the Patriots were up by so much Tom Brady was arguing with the referees and getting all pissed when they got a 5 yard penalty. When your up by that much you should just be enjoying the win and the game itself in my opinion.


I disagree. Brady was upset by a stupid penalty his team committed, which he should be as the offensive leader. They're striving to be the best in the league, that means not getting sloppy just because they think they're comfortably in the lead.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I didn't even think he was complaining to the refs about that penalty. One thing Brady seems to have picked up from Belichik has been the need to be perfect, or at least strive for perfection. I've seen him get down on himself when he makes a mistake like overthrowing open receivers for a very sure TD. Brady may have looked like he was being wanting to be perfect in all aspects of the game but if any player can honestly get away with that conceit it would be Brady.

Being a Niner fan since I could recall I do remember team leaders like Joe Montana, Steve Young and Ronnie Lott ripping into their teammates for mistakes they were too good to make. One thing Walsh always stressed to his players which his QBs remembered well was that no matter how well the current game was going mistakes were still going to be made and if not corrected then and there it will cascade towards the next game.

With the Colts set to play them next week I'm sure their mistakes during the Redskins game will be whats being talked about more than any talk of running up the score or season records.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Everyone and their momma in that league are supposed to be professionals. If the Pats are dominating that much, then the question isn't "Are the Pats running up the score just to prove they can", the question is "Why does the rest of the league suck so hard?"

I don't follow football, but I know when a team wallops what is considered their closest competition 52-7 then something is seriously wrong with the state of the league itself.

Why are the pats dominating so much? If it's the pro leagues, then shouldn't everyone play their best? Surely the pats can't get every talented player known to man.

I don't think it's necessarily wrong that they run the score up so much. Tactically, it's to their advantage to do so - if it were a close game, they'd want to score as many points as they could to ensure as much of a win as possible. I don't see why they should stop doing that just to make it a closer match; that's the other team's job as much as it is the Patriots'.
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