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Two types of Magic?

 
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Ryu

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject: Two types of Magic? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ok this has always bugged me...

Are there two types of magic in the suikoden world or is all magic derived from runes?

For example, how do you explain Sarah's ability to create illiusions or the elves ability to hide their home in the great forest? Is there an Illusion Rune that i don't know about, and if there is why does it seem insanely powerful?
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Sage

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sarah's ability is different from runic magic, although she is quite adept at using them. So, yes, there is magic that doesn't come from runes. It's just far more rare.
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Sialeeds

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That illusion technique is a antique Sindar technique. But that'S all I ever thought to be important. Your topic is a good question.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sarah just seems to be "special", some have even speculated she is related to Windy.
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iscalio




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sarah is not the only character to use non-runic sorcery of some kind, so there is no reason to assume she is "special" besides being a very talented magician.

Sonya Shulen used non-runic sorcery, as did Aila. Sarah used illusion spells, Sonya used a summoning spell and Aila uses elemental telepathy, and none of them used a rune for it.
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There's more than two types of magic in the suikoden world, but if you divide it into "runic" and "non-runic" magic, there'd only be two types. Non-runic magic can be divided into a number of different types, but what's common is that it takes a lot more effort to learn non-runic magic compared to runic magic-- which can be used by anubody as long as they have a rune (as long as they don't have really bad affinity).
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TruePerception

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Also, not just Sonya, Sarah, and Aila, but also, Kahn (the circle), Luc, the Silverbergs (in summoning Yuber), and even Leknaat, since she had to be able to summon without the rune to teach Luc and Sarah how to do it. We might also assume that some teleportation magic is non-runic, since Sarah can do it, seemingly, at will. The Teleportation Rune does go against this thought, but who knows?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

For all we know it's a simple derivative of runic magic however, since for the most part runes have been used to do certain aspects of the non runic thoughts delivered in this thread. Since we know that runes can themselves be taken down to fragments and to scrolls, and as such there are individuals specialising and studying in such fields, for all we know advancements in runic technology simply allowed more talented magicians to derive personalised or different reactions than untalented ones.

The 8 Fold & Clone runes all have provided multiple images of the one person, immaterial or an actual clone, taking this to a "higher level" we then also have the ability to change the images of the clones leading to an illusionist set instead of a cloning set. It's not completely out of the realm of possibilities that creating an illusion (of which Elves are far more magically inclined & perceptive than Humans) is simply a branch on the process of uncovering secrets through the study of runes & thus making slight changes to derivatives from the runes. (After all we do see combinations of elemental runes in magical effects, it is also in the realm of possibility that with fragmentations and the correct runemaster you could theoretically create say a fire lighting hybrid, then the same could be said for other runes.) Teleportation also has been seen with the Blinking rune, and if we take what was in game, Sarah's teleporting was at max 4 people, contained another magician of higher class (Luc) and when on her own was mostly teleporting in short bursts around a specified area. Again, it's not impossible that this is simply a derivative of runic magic, there is nothing to say that either of these is non runic or special in any regard, just that it is either rare or unknown.

The spirit communication isn't without merit also as we remember Badeaux & his runes in order to consort with animals and in the realm of spirits animals are usually representations of or associated with the spirit realm. Kahn's barrier he specifically stated was the Marley families research into magicks and vampires, so again who is to say it is not a direct derivative incorporating, extrapolating untapped potential or tweaking the effects of the Resurrection Rune he would be proficient with? Summoning in the same sense doesn't seem so special because in a sense most runes have a form of summoning;

Elemental runes summon their specified element, Pale Gate, even the Black Sword summons extra swords for it's effects.

How is to say that any of these cannot contain a facet of runic power and instead needs to be of the non runic set? Advancements in the study of runes in the Suikoden universe is not at the point where they can be imitated without the use of an item and by pure ability alone, even a basic flaming arrow spell needs a scroll, so if producing fire cannot be done without the aide of a runic derived device what is to then say that mass teleportation, illusionary and the like techniques are purely ability based and non runic? I think that's far too presumptuous on the level of skill and research done in said fields.
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Song Jiang

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

YES THERE IS MAGIC THAT DOESNT COME FROM RUNES. U JUST DONT SEE IT MUCH
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