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The mytical lands in SI
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Ryu

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: The mytical lands in SI Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Something that has always bugged me is the land of the elves, kobolds and dwarves in Suikoden 1. I mean first off is it actually part of the toran republic? better yet is it even really there. the only way to get to it is through a magic forest that humans can navagate, so my question is:

Is the land of the mystical beings really where we think it is on the map?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's really where it is on the map. Before Suikoden 1 there was the Succession War. Barbarossa and his Great Generals actually had most of thier territory taken by Geil Rugner, and they were forced to retreat into the Great Forest to regroup. So it's actually there. The spell that keeps people out is just an illusion magic set up by elven elders that makes humans wander in the wrong direction, leading them out of the forest. Elves are immune to the spell (or they at least know how to ignore it).

I'm thinking that after Suikoden 1, the spell is taken down. it may have even been taken down when the elven tree was destroyed or when the Liberation Army beat Kwanda Rosman. The illusion probably still existed at the entrance because the game-makers couldn't be bothered to change it (and why bother doing that when the player will just be using Viki?).
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Ryu

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think you might be right about it being taken down when the elven tree was destoryed because i just remembered that's where you find templeton making updates to his maps. But yeah i completely forgot that they did explain it as an illusion. but were dwarves and kobolds also immune to the spells effects?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't think that Dwarfs or Kobolds really left that area, they seemed comfortable enough there. To be honest I only ever used the village entrance when I first went into that area, after that I just used Viki to get Templeton etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I really like that region. It's on of the things which impressed me in Suikoden. HOw they included Elves, Kobolds and the Dwarves there.
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Wolf Stew

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's semi-annoying that you can't teleport to the Kobold village. The best you can do is teleport to the destroyed Elf Tree, and then walk northwest to the Kobold village, fighting your way past the random enemies you meet along the way.

Actually, the only reason to go back to that region is to recruit Rubi, who is the only character who won't join right away (after you defeat Kwanda).

It would have been nice if the Elf Tree had been slowly rebuilt during the game, like Ryube was during Suikoden 2. Oh well.
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Milan Fiori

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The only problem with it being rebuilt was the only three known survivors were Kirkis, Sylvina and Stallion. Rubi was exiled from the village, so it didn't effect him until Kirkis convinced him to join them. Since there were only four elves left, and Stallion left for Jowston shortly after. How the heck did the rebuild?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Milan Fiori wrote:
The only problem with it being rebuilt was the only three known survivors were Kirkis, Sylvina and Stallion. Rubi was exiled from the village, so it didn't effect him until Kirkis convinced him to join them. Since there were only four elves left, and Stallion left for Jowston shortly after. How the heck did the rebuild?


There were probably other elves who survived, perhaps Stallion saved them and of course don't forget that maybe elves travelled from other lands to the region. There are many possible things to explain how it was rebuilt.
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Ryu

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I agree with overdose, there are many elves in the later games that were not anywhere near the great tree when it was burned. It is very possible that more then guess those seen in Suikoden 1 survived. Perhaps something like that brought most of them back "home" to rebuild or something.

As an intresting side note... does anyone remember if the elves in the dwarves of the suikoden world did or did not get along. If they didn't does anyone else think that perhaps the dwarves might have made it a bit to easy for the plans for their enemies destruction to be stolen and built? (it's been a long time since i last played suikoden one so i might be getting some facts mixed up here)
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Wataru

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The elves and dwarves definitely did NOT get along, that's for sure. When the Dwarf Chief hears that the mirror was stolen he says "I hope all the elves are killed."

As for them allowing the plans to be stolen, I doubt it. Dwarvish pride would not allow them to have a human using thier doomsday technology if it could be avoided. If they really wanted the elves dead, they could have used the mirror themselves. I guess the dwarves of Toran could take over the whole world with some of the insidious crap they designed and built. But anyway, the Swarf Chief seems pretty surprised to hear that the plans were stolen in the first place and if he was involved he probably would have fessed up to it at one point. He also says, "That's what you get for stealing" to Kwanda when the mirror is smashed.
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Milan Fiori

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There weren't any elves shown after the destruction of the Tree, besides Rubi, Sylvina, Stallion and Kirkis. And they made it quite clear elves weren't allowed to leave the village area.

I could see maybe 4 or 5 other elves being away from the village at the time, but the only reason Sylvina and Stallion escaped was due to his extreme speed. It couldn't be much of a village to rebuild with at most like 10 members.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wataru wrote:

As for them allowing the plans to be stolen, I doubt it. Dwarvish pride would not allow them to have a human using thier doomsday technology if it could be avoided. If they really wanted the elves dead, they could have used the mirror themselves. I guess the dwarves of Toran could take over the whole world with some of the insidious crap they designed and built. But anyway, the Swarf Chief seems pretty surprised to hear that the plans were stolen in the first place and if he was involved he probably would have fessed up to it at one point. He also says, "That's what you get for stealing" to Kwanda when the mirror is smashed.


Surprised wouldn't be the word I'd use for his reaction, considering he then dared your entourage to break into the vault, it'd more be outrage that outsiders dared to question dwarven ingenuity and technology. Which is also why when you succeed it isn't "oh holy crap you did it, iee we all be doomed!" it was more resignation that the fact was it was stolen which would lead to a more reserved and angry reasoning rather than shocked or surprised reasonings.
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Wolf Stew

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There had to be more elf survivors than the 4 Suikoden characters. Remember, the world map only shows major cities, it doesn't shower the smaller towns outside. It's reasonable to assume that elves from the countryside came in to help rebuild the Great Elf Tree (which was rebuilt after the war ended, according to both Kirkis' and Rubi's endings).

I'm not sure *why* the Great Elf Tree was destroyed in the first place, actually. The elves weren't offering any kind of resistance to the empire....rather they were just living quietly in the woods. When your country is in the throes of a civil war, why inflame the passions of the population against your side? It doesn't make sense.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

They were probably refusing to obey the Empire's laws.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Every bad guy is genocidal, didn't you know that? Ethnically cleansed the hell out of that "magic" area now didn't they?
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