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Justified deaths

 
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Sami

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:38 am    Post subject: Justified deaths Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In the Suikoden series, there have been a few characters that have died during the war, yet have not prevented the gathering of the 108 Stars, like Ramada in Suikoden IV, Kiba in Suikoden II and (optionally) Ridley. I'm not sure but the original novel might have characters like this as well, who died but were still counted as part of the 108 stars. I guess their deaths could be called 'justified' (at least Ramada and Kiba).

These are still rare occurrences, so how about adding a little realism by allowing more people to die a 'justified death' and not make it affect the gathering of the 108 stars? Some of them could be plot-directed 'justified deaths', and there could also be some allowance for characters fallen in battle to become 'justified', such as the first two or having the game decide if the death was just. This could be noted in some way on the Tablet of Stars, for example, the name of a justifiably fallen character could be in gold instead of grey/black, and there could be a note about the 'justified death' on the status page.

There could still be 'unjust deaths' which would need to be prevented by the player to gain the 108 stars ending, but the 'justified deaths' could add more tension and realism to the game and also make deaths in battle a little more likely. Some players might check the details of a character fallen in battle afterwards, and seeing that the death was 'honorable' or 'just' and will not stop getting the 108 stars ending, they might decide to continue on instead of resetting. Or the difference could be told right at the time of death in battle, and also reflected in the death quote.
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well to be called "justified", then it has to be based on the plot. There's no other way around it because gameplay death would be non-plot related and hence, unjust.

What I want to see is to have dead characters leaving something like a "will" to the Tenkai Star, may it be in form of potch, equipment, rune, etc that might be unique and the only way to receive such item. Different characters can give different items out so that there are quite a choice to get. That way people wouldn't be too discouraged to continue if someone died. Will also give plenty more reasons to replay the game too.
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BlackKnightYuber




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Not to nitpick, but didn't Ramada live through his ordeal in Suikoden IV?
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

BlackKnightYuber wrote:
Not to nitpick, but didn't Ramada live through his ordeal in Suikoden IV?


Yes, he lives through the Cray needle attack.
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Sialeeds

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I dunno, but I can't really think of somebody's death beeing "justified".
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Sougen Shio

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Jimba, Yun and Roy deaths are as far I remember justified. I think Roy's death shouldn't remove him from the tablet of stars, I mean, if Jimba and Yun's death didn't removed their name from the ToS, why when you chose to defend your castle roy death isn't justified?

I guess unjustified death means the death of those characters that can die in war battles right?
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Thief

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Characters who are destined to die DURING the war shouldn't even be placed on the tablet in the first place, as far as I'm concerned. Mathiu is a primary exception to this rule, naturally.

Those like Jimba and Yun who pretty much joins your army to die for you made little sense to be counted as one of the 108 Stars canon-wise, especially compared to their other equivalent like Odessa, Teo, Pohl or Lulu.

Of course, the fact that Suikoden III allowed the Destroyers join YOUR little band of stars made things worse, but that's better left for another topic...
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HarmonianHiccup

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think, as has been said, that in order for a death to actually be justified, it needs to be something that drives the plot forward in one way or another. Characters that die under player control in any of the tactical battles should not be included under that heading, I believe. Of course, this is a little unrealistic, but we're not playing these games for realism, are we?

A "justified" death that has yet to be mentioned is that of Gremio in Suikoden I. Of course, you get him back if you have all of the other stars, but his is a prime example of the sort of plot-driving death that shouldn't preclude the player from obtaining the benefits of a full Tablet of Stars.
It was a choice he made himself, and therefore it should not effect the Tablet himself, and was something that added a depth of pathos I had not believed possible in a little sprite game.
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