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Roundier Haia
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Andarc wrote:
And what is your L.C.C. Argument?


Try looking up.

iscalio wrote:
If the Falcon Rune's existence alone is taken as a hint towards a True Rune in Roundier's possession, then the same could be said about Long Chan Chan and many others. And I doubt that Long Chan Chan has a True Rune.
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Seraphblade

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Iscalio meant that the falcon rune can be considered more as a technique rather than an actual story-based rune. Since all runes are were created by their True Rune counterpart, it would seem strange to have L.C. Chan's rune considered to be a True Rune.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Seraphblade wrote:
Iscalio meant that the falcon rune can be considered more as a technique rather than an actually story-based rune. Since all runes are were created by their True Rune counterpart, it would seem strange to have L.C. Chan's rune considered to be a True Rune.


Besides, runes aren't created by True Runes instantly, they just seem to be around from the beginning of time.
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iscalio




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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You (Andarc) said: The Falcon Rune is likely the child of a True Rune in the possession of the Master of the Falcon Style.

My LCC argument: Long Chan Chan, master and inventor of the Dragon Style martial arts, has (by teaching her) given his pupil Wakaba a White Tiger Rune. That's analogous to the Falcon Rune case, and this would mean that Long Chan Chan would have a True Rune just like Roundier Haia.


EDIT: Oh my, three posts while I was typing this.
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Milan Fiori

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bad Mountain Fox! No teasing people about their over use of commas!

Anyways, I'm with Sougen here, and am pretty sure that Roundier was just a master of the school, rather than it's founder. We also can surmise that the Falcon Fencing Style, isn't just the rapid succession of thrusts, but something more as while both Anita and Valeria follow this pattern, Belcoot the only other confirmed student is completely different.

Andarc wrote:
and runes are not just "representations" of your special abilities, they are themselves, special runes, meaning Falcon Rune could very well be a child rune of the supposed true rune that Roundier Haia would wield.


As for this, it's widely believed by alot of fans, that due to game mechanics that Special Command runes like the Falcon Rune, Boar Rune, Red Rose Rune and so on are not in fact really runes but rather the games way of interpreting physical skills and ability. They don't use Magic points, very rarely are they unequipable, and the characters that use them are usually highly trained. Like Pahn was a skilled martial artist, Augstine was a gentleman and focused on graceful and show strikes.

Whether this is true or not is up for debate. However, that's what iscalio meant. And his Long Chan Chan example is that L.C.C. was the creator of his style meaning that he's the best. Like Roundier his students use runes for his style, but he himself doesn't have a true rune, so how does he create these runes to give his students?

Edit: I somehow entirely missed this second page.. oops.
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Overdose

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hayashi Ujitsuna wrote:
Andarc wrote:
To be the teacher of Kika, and Valeria, would mean you're immortal, thus more evidence towards a true rune, and runes are not just "representations" of your special abilities, they are themselves, special runes, meaning Falcon Rune could very well be a child rune of the supposed true rune that Roundier Haia would wield. Actually it was pretty laughable, of you to say that it is not likely for this Roundier Haia, to have a true rune, because it would only make it apparent that you don't know the timeline very well! :D


But Roundier Haia isn't the teacher of Kika as far as we know, and this would suggest that the Falcon Rune is not exlcusive to that school of swordsmanship.


Or we could assume that she was trained in Kanakan by another master who awarded her the rune. Then again maybe Kika is related to Roundier? as a Great relative.

And Andarc its not really laughable to assume that Roundier had a True Rune its very possible and could be made apparent in future games with a new team at the helm. All we can do is assume though as there are no facts when Roundier was indeed born. Is it also possible that Roundier is not actually the masters name, it could be like a title?
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Sailor Sexy

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hayashi Ujitsuna wrote:
I guess you haven't played Suikoden VI then.



Neither have you.

There's really nothing known about Roundier Haia. Anything brought up is merely conjecture and not based in any real facts. I'm willing to bet that not much will be revealed about him/her. Just because some people think it's an important aspect doesn't mean that the creators will agree. To Konami, that might not but an important enough aspect to warrant delving into.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sailor Sexy wrote:
Hayashi Ujitsuna wrote:
I guess you haven't played Suikoden VI then.


Neither have you.


I really hope you got what I was saying.
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

One thing that Suikoden V proved is that Roundier Haia is indeed male. Too bad! They refered to him with a male gender pronoun somewhere. My "female kobold swordmistress" idea seems to be much better... but that's just me yapping about.
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Admiral Ackbar

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

A female kobold anything would be nice, really. There have been numerous recruitable kobolds throughout the first three games, and they've all been male.

Also, all of the recruitable Ducks, Lizards, Wingers, and Nay-Kobolds are male.

Suikoden s 4 and 5 really fucked the Falcon Rune up. They just don't make sense. The Falcon Rune is described as a fencing rune. Kika uses a double sword style that doesn't match what Valeria and Anita use, especially since her blades aren't made for thrusting (they're curved). Belcoot is worse. He just thwacks the enemy with a two-handed sword. How do you fence with a two-handed sword?!

The unique command runes in Suikoden 5 are just random. It's like they decided to put runes names on all the special attack runes, but they were out of good name ideas, so they decided to recycle the names of runes from the old games, except the runes they used didn't match the characters that got them.
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Falcon Critical

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Agreed, I personally think that Richard should have been the student of Haia and Belcoot should have had the 'swallow' rune... looking at their stances and weapons it would have made a whole lot more sense.

Interesting about all the recruitable ducks/lizards/wingers/kobolds being male, I thought Rhett was female and 'her' and Wilder were like a disfunctional couple, but seems they were just a couple old men. I guess they did address the race gender issue with the Beavers - but like the general sentiment seems around here i'd rather they had some female kobolds or something.

I did also like the fact that you made not only a female kobold but one along the lines of Ridley/Boris that is more refined and intelligent than the general comic relief of Gengen and co. Shame they had to go and say "he" :P

Oh btw - the Shrike rune has been in more games than the Falcon rune, and even though it is not derived from a specific school/style (beyond being a female ninja signature rune) it has remained for more unchanged than the coveted Falcon rune, in all aspects - users/animation/damage multipliers.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Attack runes like the Falcon and Boar were utterly pathetic in Suikoden V. Honestly, I can't think of a single redeeming thing about them, which is why I never even bothered using them. I hope Suikoden VI presents these runes the way that they've been used in earlier installments.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Speaking of the White Tiger Rune, didn't it become a common command rune in Rhapsodia?

While Falcon and Swallow Runes were disappointing in Suikoden V, I thought they did well with the Angry Dragon Rune. Having it on an Island Nations representative made it twice as sweet.

Hopefully Roundier Haia does not end up as mere reference when we finally land on Kanakan. Conveniently retconning the references like Safir Clan and the Crimson Pilgrims out of existence when we finally visit their homelands seems to be a disturbing trend in this series, so let's hope this Haia guy survives that at least.

Schtolteheim Reinbach III treatment is the least that Konami should give him, I think.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Vextor wrote:
One thing that Suikoden V proved is that Roundier Haia is indeed male. Too bad! They refered to him with a male gender pronoun somewhere. My "female kobold swordmistress" idea seems to be much better... but that's just me yapping about.


You know he'll be human and really really white with a beard don't you?
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CAPTAIN PLANET

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Vextor wrote:
One thing that Suikoden V proved is that Roundier Haia is indeed male. Too bad! They refered to him with a male gender pronoun somewhere. My "female kobold swordmistress" idea seems to be much better... but that's just me yapping about.

Yeah, it was Lyon who said it, I think, when the group was looking at who was entering the Sacred Games. I preferred your idea, Vex, if it helps you. :D
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