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Circle Rune Vs. Rune of Change?

 
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:27 pm    Post subject: Circle Rune Vs. Rune of Change? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm just focusing on how polar opposite these two runes are, and how they both represent two of the most mysterious and influential civilizations in the Suikoden world. The Circle Rune represents control, order and stagnation, whilst the Rune of Change represents chaos and constant change. The Circle Rune being the symbol of the Holy Kingdom of Harmonia and the Rune of Change being the Sindar leader's "cursed" rune which forced them to constantly move from land to land. Does this mean Hikusaak is himself the arch nemesis of the Sindar leader? Does the theme of dharma against chaos in Suikoden III relate to this do you think?

So many questions (well two, but I'm sure you could think of some)!
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Ryu

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I always thought the Eightfold rune was the rune most related to chaos... hmmm, never really thought about it this way. But from what i know about the series, i don't think hikusaak and the leader of the sindar have anything to do with one another. I mean they could, but nothing has made any indication that they do. But who knows, maybe they will make a game about the sindar become cursed or something. Although i would still personally preffer to see a game about a revolution in harmonia. :off topic: sorry off topic just a little
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, with the exception of Yuber's character, nothing is known about the Eightfold Rune, so it could in theory have nothing to do with chaos. I see the Rune of Change as the main opponent of the Circle Rune's characteristics.
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iscalio




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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Change and chaos are quite different, and not inherently related. Do we know that the Rune of Change governs chaos?
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

iscalio wrote:
Change and chaos are quite different, and not inherently related. Do we know that the Rune of Change governs chaos?


No but we know the Circle Rune means stagnation whilst the Rune of Change is of course - constant change, the two are opposite to me at least.
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Ryu

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i agree with hayashi, it is just commonly believed that because yuber likes to create chaos the eightfold rune has something to do with chaos but it's not offical. and he's right stagnation about change.
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

iscalio wrote:
Change and chaos are quite different, and not inherently related. Do we know that the Rune of Change governs chaos?


Aha, yes, I was thinking of the exact same thing. Chaos and change are not equal, because change can happen in an ordely, predictable manner. Not all change is chaotic--in fact, most types of changes are orderly in nature.

Official info only states that the "Rune of Change" signifies "change." No mention of chaos.

We also have no idea what the Eightfold Rune signifies.

So it is possible that the Rune of Change can oppose a certain portion of the Circle Rune, but we're not sure. Even Stagnation can be accompanied by change if the change is predictable.

It is also possible that the Rune of Change isn't diametrically opposed to the Circle Rune at all, and instead be releated in a triagular relationship including the eightfold rune, if the eightfold rune indeed represents chaos in some way--which is somewhat possible if "Eightfold" is an idea that Murayama borrowed from Melnibonean mythology (and Murayama is a fan of that particular saga).

The bottom line is we have too little evidence to even make a good guess.
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

change hurdles into the future, rushing flowing hurtling. is it unstopable are we slaves to it. change infulaces and builds and grows.

prehaps stagnaition is like standing on a rock in that flowing river in old ways and tradition, keeping with what works and not going for innovation but things that were classic.

I don't know.
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Scarlet Assassin

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Or we go with my theory that Hikusaak is the leader of the Sindar. The Circle rune and the Rune of change are the same rune in that it governs Change, and Stagnation. Eh? Eh? No takers huh?
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JetTheHellfire




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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:20 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I get the feeling I'll be necroposting a lot lol
[quote="Scarlet Assassin":g90ezmko]Or we go with my theory that Hikusaak is the leader of the Sindar. The Circle rune and the Rune of change are the same rune in that it governs Change, and Stagnation. Eh? Eh? No takers huh?

I like that theory, but I'm pretty sure it's official that they're seperate Runes.

I've always felt like the Runes are in groups, like different litters of puppies from the same dog. The elements seem to be a group, then we have the celestial Runes, and it wouldn't be too much to assume that these two are "littermates" as well. Maybe other True Runes fit together like that, even ones that would be at odds with each other in purpose. Sibling rivalry?

Heh, just my 2ยข
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Rezard




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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Vextor":18wed8lc] Chaos and change are not equal, because change can happen in an ordely, predictable manner. Not all change is chaotic--in fact, most types of changes are orderly in nature.

That's a rather radical understanding of change. If you include this "orderly change" into the rune of change, then everything is change. How so? If you are seated now in your chair, that's change, cause the world is spining, if you are sleeping that's change, cause your heart is beating, everything is change. You make change so big that envelopes the universe.

I think it is much more rational to understand change as the opposite of inertia. Since true runes are supposed to envelop a aspect of the world and not all of it, I think the change means rupture, the opposite of inertia. Just to remind you, regular movement is inertia.

I think the change means social change, cultural change, natural change, it means something that has an impact. I dont think meanless change should be included in the rune of change, like a repeated movement that does the same thing forever. That is if you want to understand change as an aspect of the universe and not the universe itself.

Also this "orderly change" is already included in the circle rune. Isnt that the simbolgy of a circle? A change that leads to the same point it left?
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