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NFL: Bill Bellichick and the Pats - General Discussion
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Calvin

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

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Also, the Colts should have the toughest schedule. It's league policy that teams who make the playoffs on a consistent basis get their schedule for the next season have teams that may be tougher than the year before.


They say that, but the fact is that divisions play each other twice (which you mentioned), and also play 1 other division from each conference, which are cycled on a rotation each year and are not based on Strength of Schedule at all. That right there is 14 games against teams that may or may not be good. The remaining two games are played against the teams in the same conference that finished in the same place within their own division; for example, If the NFC East is scheduled to play the NFC South this year, than the number 2 team in the NFC East would also play the number 2 teams in the NFC North and South. So, those two games are the only two that come close to representing strength of schedule, and it has nothing to do with playoffs. Afterall, a wild card team can be the third seed within their own division (much like it was in the NFC East last year) and still win the superbowl--but they still would only play 3rd ranked teams against the two remaining divisions in their conference.

The Colts schedule manages to be so hard because their division is pretty tough. The Pats manages to be fairly easy because their division is pretty weak. So, it's more than just the NFL wanting strength of schedule to be higher for winning clubs.

EDIT: As an aside, this is also why you will often see teams like the Patriots and Colts squaring off in the regular season. If they both win their division (which they usually do), than they will play each other in the regular season the next year, per NFL scheduling policy. Its not some conspiracy theory, which I've heard people say.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The same happened in the Niner heyday where they would end up playing teams like Parcells' Giants, Gibbs' Redskins, Ditka's Bears and Ryan's Eagles. Still had to play the bad teams who usually end up being part of the NFC West at that time, butwinning teams usually end up getting a tougher non-divisional schedule of games than teams who haven't had much success.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

With the way the current NFL schedule works, only 2 games on the ENTIRE schedule are based on last season. Here's the breakdown:

6 games against own division.
4 games against an AFC division.
4 games against an NFC division.
2 games against a team in the same conference that had the same DIVISION standing.

Those last 2 games are the only 2 that are decided.

So with the way the current NFL system works, even if you win the Super Bowl, your non-divisional SOS is only marginally harder than anyone elses.
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Geddoe

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I closed Shad's topic, but I wanted to bring his post over here so we all could discuss.

Shad wrote:
I'm not going to write much on this subject, but I did want to bring it up. I can't profess to be a football genius. My knowledge is limited to about 1993 on when I started watching it. The 60s Packers, 70s Steelers, the 80s 49ers, I don't really know enough about them to judge them. What I do know is that I've watched about five Pats games this season, and having witnessed tonight's raping of Buffalo I cannot possibly imagine a more perfect performance. "Running the score up" be damned, they would have broken 60 points with ease had they not given Buffalo a pity punt. "Easy schedule?" They walloped Dallas and beat Indianapolis. Every year there's a team or two that stands out as decidedly better than the rest. New England have walked in the 2007 Cowboys and Packers' shoes plenty of times. But this, this is something else. Everyone thought maybe the Colts would go undefeated two years ago. Well I honestly will be surprised if New England don't win 19 straight.

So my question, as the title states, is this: Do you think the 2007 New England Patriots are already the greatest single season team in the history of the NFL? Do you think come February they could be? Does it even matter that they haven't gone all the way yet?

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Sailor Sexy

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What I think this season is doing more so is proving the Tom Brady supporters right. I'm sure most people agreed that Tom Brady was a very talented quarterback to begin with. But, previously people would look and say that Peyton Manning was probably the better regular season quarterback since he would usually put out the better seasons. However, now that Brady has a receiving corp that is the equal of what Manning had those years, we see him posting up gaudy stats. You can bring up the running up the score argument to the table if you'd like, but I don't view that as an issue. New England has a defense, which until recently Indy didn't, so even though Peyton needed to score that many points, just because Brady doesn't have to doesn't make it any less impressive.

Also, that does bring together the point of the whole team. On both sides of the ball they're playing great. Now, I didn't get to watch the Philly game, and that was certainly a lot closer than it had any right being, so maybe people have them figured out. I don't know. All I do know is that they are 11-0, and until they get that first loss, I see no reason to think they'll be anything but perfect at the end, hoisting another Super Bowl trophy. Now, I'd be lying if I said I didn't care if they went 19-0 this season. Of course I want them to do it so the '72 Dolphins team will fade into obscurity, and even though they'll probably still keep popping champagne since they'll have convinced themselves that since New England was caught cheating that their record doesn't count, no one will pay any attention to them anymore. But honestly, as long as they get the three playoff wins (I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume they'll have a first round bye) that's all that matters in the end.

Also, this brings up a question. Would they have to go 19-0 for this season to be considered the greatest ever? Would 18-1 with a Super Bowl victory be meaningless as far as greatness is concerned? Or, are people of the mindset that because of that video from the first game, the whole season is a wash and they cannot be considered great no matter how many records they set? I'm a New England fan, been one since their first Super Bowl appearance in the '85 season, so I know the bitter taste of lousy seasons. No little non-issue like a silly tape is going to tarnish their season or take any enjoyment away for me. I know I have to enjoy it while I can, because while I feel they still have plenty of shots left with Brady around, when he's gone, who's to say it won't all crumble?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In my opinion, the defining characteristic of this Patriots team isn't their ability to put up 56 points on Washington. I don't really have a problem with teams running up the score. These are professional athletes, if they can't handle a superior opponent continuing to play hard until the end, that's a problem. But honestly? New England had the Skins beat long before that. Their numbers don't impress me.

What impresses me is that New England is able to do two things:

a) They take control of every game they're in. I heard some scorn tossed around (not necessarily here, but I talk football everywhere) about the statistic that the Patriots always scored on their opening drive. To me, this is a big deal. It sets the pace of the game if New England is able to drive downfield and put up points. Many teams in the league can't put together a good drive half the time to save their lives!

New England is mostly a passing offense, but they're extremely proficient at it. They've taken the very strong spread-field that New England has been playing for several years, and add the threat of Randy Moss. It would be a mistake to say that New England can't or won't run the ball though. Maroney is a very talented back, and Brady has a number of scrambling touchdowns. Why? Because they rule that field when they're on it.

Another thing...putting up 56 points doesn't guarantee a victory. If the New England defense wasn't as proficient as they are, none of these games would have been blowouts. Proficient offenses can put up points against anybody if they find a rhythm, but the Patriots also specialize in keeping their opponents in check. All of this is part of point "a", incidentally.

b) When New England isn't dominating a game, they keep playing hard to pull things out. Three times this year the Patriots have seen some competition. Against Dallas it was mostly a matter of outshooting them. Against the Colts, however, Indianapolis had every chance to win that game. The Colts dominated the first half, and got a lead. New England got themselves out of that situation with a mighty late game rally.

Against Philadelphia, the Eagles were keeping pace with the Patriots, and were in a good situation to win the game, but late, the Patriots' defense stepped up and gave the offense the breathing room to score that game winning field goal. Yes, the Eagles did a lot of things right, and seemed to suggest a way to beat the Patriots...but if they had New England figured out, shouldn't they have won? Against a lesser team, they almost certainly would have.

I have to say, I think the '07 Patriots are easily one of, if not the, greatest teams ever to play the game.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yay, the Pats crushed the Steelers, I never thought they'd go undefeated through the regular season but it looks like they are going to do it, which means there better not be any losing until next season because otherwise this year will be a total letdown.

It's sad to me that all of a sudden everyone hates the Patriots, I was at the gym for the end of the NE vs. BAL game and every person was cheering for the Pats to lose except for me. I understand and fully expect people who's not a fan of a certain team to start disliking a dominating team like the Pats sooner or later, but it never felt that obvious over the years because NE were never overwhelming favorites even when winning Super Bowls while being a top team the last 6 or 7 years, if anything they were always the underdogs or team that wins with less talent which most people like to cheer for.

All of a sudden this year they finally do have the most talented team for the first time ever, then the camera thing must have turned 1/2 of the people that would otherwise be cheering for them to hate their guts. While I do think those are reason enough to hate a team, I really think lots of those people were just looking for a reason to do so anyways.

Yes, “bad news” Billy seems like an A-hole most of the time but that’s nothing new, it’s not like what happened in week one of this season instantly changed him into a bad man, so those who think he’s some sort of scum as of this season are just jumping on the haters bandwagon. Recently I also hear that Tom Brady is disrespectful and a jerk as a person (not counting the situation with his fun baby), or that the whole Patriots team are full of selfish bastards with no sportsmanship… which I’m sure all just happened overnight as a bit to piss off all the “good football fans”. It’s so nice that those “great fans” just flock to these assumptions because it’s the popular thoughts at the moment.

What’s the difference between finding untrue reasons to hate a team and acting like a loyal fan only when your team is winning? How about those people look at the facts and think for themselves? Freaking idiots…
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Calvin

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

It's sad to me that all of a sudden everyone hates the Patriots, I was at the gym for the end of the NE vs. BAL game and every person was cheering for the Pats to lose except for me.


It comes with the territory, and I say that as a Cowboys fan. I don't see a problem with it. You just aren't used to it because the Pats were never as dominating as they are this season. Most people don't like winning teams that they aren't fans of, and you couple that with a couple controversial things the Pats have done, and voila. I don't see what the big deal is.

Get used to it. And speaking as a Pats hater and a fan of an equally polarizing team, all I can tell you is to quit your complaining because your team is winning anyways. :P
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Eh, I've never had a problem with people hating the Patriots. Go for it, hate a winner, that's fine. As Calvin said, back when the Cowboys were actually a threat to win the Super Bowl (yup, past tense ;) ), people either loved em or hated em. When a team is at the forefront of their sport, it's really next to impossible not to have an opinion on them.

Frankly, I'm rather glad that there's some hate coming their way. It was getting really tiresome having to hear over and over how New England is this model franchise, and how everyone loves the Patriots. Really, this season has separated some of the pretend fans and exposed them for what they were. Much like any successful dynasty like the Dallas Cowboys or the San Francisco 49ers, the real fans will stick with them no matter what people say, and the pretenders will get off the wagon.

Really, all that has to be said to people being critical of the Patriots is to talk to me when they lose. Until then, they're just like chihuahuas, yapping away and trying to sound big. They're really easy to ignore.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Maybe it's because San Antonio doesn't have a team of its own, but a lot of people here have been cheering on the Pats. Well, not so much cheering them on as not rooting against them. A lot of people here seem to hold a 'may the best team win' attitude, and as the Patriots are clearly the best team they're highly respected. It can change from game to game of course. When Philly gave them a run for their money a lot of people, myself included, were cheering on both offenses, because both were playing damn good football. In the Baltimore game on the other hand where the closeness was due more to mistakes on the Pats part than the admittedly decent defense of the Ravens almost everyone at the same pub was rooting decidedly for the Pats, because no one wanted to see them lose like that.

It was funny today, I watch every Steelers and Pats game and I go to a different place depending on whether it's a day game or a night game. The place I went to today a lot of out of town folk hang out at and Pittsburgh's especially popular. Being from Pittsburgh myself it's usually great. As much as I love the Steelers more than any other team though I couldn't feel remotely bad about the loss. Hell, I caught myself letting out a big "Awhh" when Randy missed that easy touchdown pass towards the end, sitting there with my Steelers hat on. Similarly I heard almost no booing despite there being a lot more Steelers than Pats fans here, and people were cheering and clapping for every first down like they never expected a win to begin with and were just proud that the Steelers didn't look embarrassing out there.

Granted I've always liked the Pats, I think if any team was this ridiculously good I couldn't help but support them. I mean, appreciate and enjoy the fact that you're seeing football history in the making right now. This is one of those seasons they'll be talking about thirty years from now. Unless it was a team I very strongly disliked, like Dallas, any of the Florida teams, Atlanta, Dallas, Oakland, maybe the Panthers, or Dallas, I think I'd have to support them out of simple respect.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

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Most people don't like winning teams that they aren't fans of, and you couple that with a couple controversial things the Pats have done, and voila. I don't see what the big deal is.

Like I said I completely expect that and see no problems with it, but it wasn't an obvious reaction among football fan for the better part of this decade because the Pats were never as dominating as the Cowboys, and were always viewed as the lower talent hard working team which people would cheer for even when they are good.

It's lame that all of a sudden so many people jump shift this season because the Patriots are the best on paper for once, I know they did something wrong to deserve criticism, but all the bandwagon fans act as if they changed from the good guys to an evil empire overnight, just because it's the "popular" thing to believe. I suppose all the Cowboys drug busts might have had a similar effect on the fans in the 90’s, but why diminish a good team of players because of something their coach did that really didn’t even matter in this season?

Plus as I said, if someone is just figuring out that Bellichick can be a major ass, then get in the long line that’s been forming for over a decade which stretches from New York to Cleveland and back to New York again. Whoever’s acting all offended now by his recent actions, only shows that they know very little about the NFL in general and can’t even think for themselves as a football fan.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Again, I ask, so what? I welcome more people to say how evil and horrible the Patriots are. Every time the Patriots win, I can have a laugh at the expense of everyone who doubted them. If people want to continue to look foolish and say this season and all the other great seasons the Patriots have had are tainted because of some video, have at it. It doesn't bother me nearly as much as it seems to bother them that they or their favorite teams were beaten by the best.

It's much more fun to be perceived as the bad guys than the good guys. The good guys have way too much responsibility to uphold a certain image all the time. The bad guys can just go about their business, and if people don't like it, tough. Doesn't mean you have to be a jerk to be a bad guy, other than Belichick, I don't really think there's anyone on the team who you can classify as a jerk, just because the players tend to stay out of the spotlight as much as they can.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't even think anyone is jumping off of the Pats bandwagon, jirrs. If any I think the wagon is getting full. There's really more of football fans like SSF and I who think trying to play off the goodie-goodie image the Pats have been labeled in the past is quite boring. We like our teams to be dominant and ruthless in pursuit of the opposing team. My take on the whole running up the score tainting the Pats' reputation is that losers talk like that. If these paid millionaires don't have enough pride to try and stop another team from rolling over them each and everytime they have the ball then get out of the league and go back to playing High School or college ball.

I think what has happened this year is that those fans who didn't care much either way about the Pats are now jumping on lets hate the Pats bandwagon. These are fans of other teams the Pats didn't play much. But since the Pats began their let's destroy every team campaign for the 2007-2008 season even fans who normally wouldn't give two-bits about the Pats have chimed in how they hate the team like forever. For these fans all I can say stay on your own team's wagon and stop trying to think you're cool by hating another team whose success was built on stepping on your own team's miseries.

Hell, my Niner teams of the glory days were hated for being too fancy for football with their West Coast offense and high-sophisticated ways and yet they kept hiring coaches on that same system away. While I'm a die-hard Niner fan through and through I still like the Pats just for the fact they've inherited the mantle the Niners had for two decades of being the model franchise and most dominant one.

I'm interested in what people think this Sunday's game against the Jets will mean to the score. Suge Belichik, Brady and the Pats have been downplaying any talk of payback for what Mangini after Week One. But is there any doubt that if they have the chance to do so the Pats will run up the score and beat the early 24-point spread the Vegas people have on this game.
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Geddoe

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There's no arguing the fact that this week is going to be an ugly week for the Jets. They started it [rightfully so, but still], and the Pats are going to finish it. I said the other day that it's possible that they'll drop a hundy on [somebody] this season and the Jets are possibly target Numero Uno. [Target Numero Dos would be the Dolphins, because that would be just too easy.

Although, if you honestly want irony, the last time the Pats lost, they lost to the Dolphins, 21-0 last year. Go figure.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Geddoe wrote:
Although, if you honestly want irony, the last time the Pats lost, they lost to the Dolphins, 21-0 last year. Go figure.


I'm sure you meant in the regular season, but just because nitpicking is fun, they actually last lost to the Colts in the AFC Championship game, spawning a fairly drunk Sailor to go on quite the tirade. And, if you REALLY want to get nitpicky, they last lost to the Titans in the preseason this year. Ok, so preseason doesn't count, but I still stand by the playoffs one :)
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