Fire Spears

[Onimaru]

Does anyone have any idea what exactly Fire Spears are? I'd love to see a character who actually wields one, but after thinking about it I realized that we've never actually been told what they are or how they work. Are they literally spears that flame up or shoot fire or whatever. After thinking about it for a minute I considered that they could be something equivalent to the early chinese fire lance, also known at the fire spear. Per Wikipedia it is:

[Yvl]

Was it the dwarves that made the fire spears? I can never remember that...
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[Sage]

Dwarves had the plans, so yes, they made them. Although technically, the ones who made them for the Toran Liberation Army was Mose, but he used the dwarf plans. Tsai I believe just repaired them in Suikoden II, he didn't make any.

I have no idea about real fire spears though.
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[Milan Fiori]

The Plans were bought from the Dwarves. And made by the Master Smith Mose at the Secret Factory.

As for what they are, from what I've seen in the game, they look like flame throwing spears basically. They release a bursts of flame and burn the enemy. Though I do like firing projectiles too. It makes sense some what. They small projectiles have a greater chance to pierce armor. If you think about really. The actual fire lances had to devastate cavalry. You had spears, which were normally used to counter cavalry. The projectiles used just before the initial clash to cause some casualties. And finally the flash of flame and clap of combustion, which I'm sure would spook the horses, causing confusion and possibly breaking the charging line.
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[Onimaru]

Indeed, the real fire spears were devistating to cavalry, and in Suikoden 1 they were used against the unstoppable cavalry unit of Teo McDoul. So I guess with those sort of similarities we can assume that the Suiko fire spears are very closely tied with the chinese fire lance. Suikox already made that connection of course, but the question remains...why?

Harmonia already has a much more advanced version of the fire spear, the gun. So what's the big deal? Hmm...does anyone have any sort of official information about the fire spear? A concept sketch or something from the books or artwork released?
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[Fundertaker]

Well, the big deal is that only a small part of Harmonia (the Howling Voice Guild) has access to guns of any kind. All other countries only have access to projectile weapons and fire spears as far as projectile weapons are concerned. Even so, for what I can understand from in game, the fires spears can actually spread the area of fire being able to hit multiple targets at once, while the guns can only have one at a time.
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This post is officially Fundertaker Approved

[Ujitsuna]

[John Layfield]

Eh, it'sall just a minor variant on the issues with Suikoden technology in general. Juppo's mechs? Kamandohl's engine? Babbage's giant mechanical robotic defense horse of doom powered entirely by gears?
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[Azuma]

Agreeing with the above post.

Developers don't think about these things that much when they're making the game. Things like the technology, timeline etc shouldn't always be taken so literally and delved into. Of course there'll be plotholes etc, like how Tsai learned how to repair these spears, how they exist in the era, all of Juppo's machines (as mentioned above), hell, a talking barrel. Just say "it's fantasy" and you've got your explanation right there. =P

[Milan Fiori]

Well one of the attractive aspects of Suikoden, is the fact that the "Oh it's just a Fantasy Game" doesn't usually apply because the timeline, history, technology and all that is just so well thought out and well planned. Juppo's dolls are obviously Dwarvish in design, due to the fact you face an upgraded version that guard the vault.
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[Onimaru]

I don't think these things were taken into account during Suikoden 1, a game I felt was jam packed with everything. Someone said they knew they were going to do a Suikoden 2 while they were working on Suikoden 1, but I don't belive it. The game is chaulked full of all sorts of odds and ends that don't make sense. Like they were trying to get across EVERY element of fantasy that they could - from dragons, elves, kobolds, dwarves, robots, guns, swords, 'etc...

Regardless I think they changed their focus in suikoden 2 and because they kept the fire spears as a part of the story I thought they may have intended them to function in the suikoden world. Fire spears are one of the only insane technical advances in the game that really makes sense, gun powder..a barrell..a ball..a pole and BANG. More advanced versions such as the guns that Harmonia has seem a tad out of place and Juppo's inventions are just wild.

Anyways; I had a stray thought. The Howling Voice Guilds guns. Are they somehow runic? I do remeber something being said about them having intellegence or a will of their own or something like that, something about users bonding with their guns or some such. Perhaps runes go into the creation of those guns, or some sort of magic or something. While the fire spears are more technical and can be better explained without resorting to "RUNES DID IT"
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[Milan Fiori]

The guns of the HVG, are supposedly sentient. Possessing a soul. Clive mentions on several occasions that Storm talks to him, and during the duel where he's shot, Storm refuses to fire.

It's unknown how they're made, but runic technology perhaps similar to Rune Cannons is a common theory.
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[Axiose]

I think it's only Storm that's "sentient". Not all the guns.

Perhaps the Fire Spears utilise a runic magic?
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[Axiose] [Fliktor]

[Milan Fiori]

I'm not too sure if it's just Storm or all the HVG guns. When you get the scene in Muse, Clive says Storm senses Elza's pistols are near. So that makes me think they're all kind of connected. But Cathari's gun wasn't exactly the same, so who knows.

As for Konami not thinking ahead when Suikoden originally came out, I think is pretty false. Georg Prime is a pretty good example of them thinking ahead. He didn't appear at all in Suikoden besides a small slip up in the beginning when a soldier saying there's six generals instead of five. However, if you open the instruction booklet up to the second or third page, you'll find a picture of the Six Imperial Generals with none other than Georg Prime with that same eye patch he wears during Suikoden V. (And yes, the timeline shows he was in the Scarlet Moon Empire before he traveled to Falena.)

But I will concede that the originally had many generic RPG references.
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[Scarlet Assassin]

Check out the HVG page on SuikoX, it explains each of the guns in depth. What we're not taking into account is the battle animation for the fire spears when they're used in Suikoden 2. It's rather obvious that these things are massively destructive. They would presumably have to be powered with runes or some sort of gas and ignition as the gun powder of the Suiko world is all contained in the HVG.
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