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NBA Draft 2007

 
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Archy

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:24 am    Post subject: NBA Draft 2007 Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay, here's the draft thread. It's not yet the 07-08 season, so I'll make that thread when training camps start.

Well, what did you guys think?

Joakim Noah went to the Bulls. I'm pretty much excited by this - yes, it doesn't solve the teams need of a low-post scorer since Noah shoots horribly, but it gives them more energy.

Think about it. If Nocioni continues with the Bulls, can you imagine Noah-Nocioni yelling all the damn time?

Another thing is, Chicago has probably the best track record in recent drafts. They have drafted:

- Kirk Hinrich
- Ben Gordon
- Luol Deng
- Chris Duhon
- Andres Nocioni
- Thabo Sefolosha
- Tyrus Thomas

And damn, that's not even counting Jay Williams. Yeah, impressive stuff there and I seriously think Noah will become a better player. More specifically, a better shooter.

In other news regarding the draft:

- New York traded PG Steve Francis and Channing Frye to Portland for Zach Randolph, Jerome James and Dan Dickau. While I'm not surprised they got rid of Francis (I mean seriously, who didn't expect at least one of Marbury/Francis to leave?), I'm even more surprised they got rid of Channing Frye.

Then again, the Knicks still have someone decent at Center in Eddy Curry, but Frye goes to Portland, which got Greg Oden. I really think this is a good move by Portland - Frye and Oden means that they'll have two decent Centers in the future, Francis provides some veteran experience I guess. And this is a team with Brandon Roy along with the other rookie from last year... Portland's really been shaping up good. Ever since they got rid of Sebastian Telfair. XD

Oh yeah, they got Rudy Fernandez too.

- Boston traded Delonte West and Wally Sczerbiak along with the 5th Pick to Seatlle for.... Ray Allen! #5 turns out to be Jeff Green of Georgetown, whom I saw play one game last NCAA since I wanted to watch Roy Hibbert. Decent pick for Seattle, and the only thing wrong I could see was Delonte West. West is good and all, but where does that leave Luke Ridnour?

Here's a quick draft analysis, btw:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/draft?analysis=1

So yeah, that's a couple of my thoughts. I'll post later when I have time.

What'd you guys think?
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It doesn't matter much if Bulls have a good run of draft picks, they're still very very very far away from challenging for the title. A mediocre team like Bulls would only have a chance to be in the Finals if they have a superstar to carry the team like how Le Bron carried the mediocre Cavaliers to the Finals (and in the past how Iverson carried Sixers). Bulls lacked the Le Bron/Iverson and will continue to fail until they have a proper leader. No, Ben Gordon is not in that category either.

I'm calling it now, Portland is not going anywhere at all. They did very well by drafting Greg Oden obviously. But they just killed themselves by taking Steve Francis. Francis, Marbury, McGrady, they're the three most overrated crap player that no General Manager should ever want if they want success for the team (Used to include Antoine Walker too, but damn Shaq and Wade for breaking his curse ... I guess two superstars would nullify one overrated player if they limit the cursed player's playtime). By taking in Steve Francis, Portland pretty much just went poof. Good job on getting rid of Zach Randolph, but awful job on replacing a bad player with a worse player.

As for Boston ... well holy crap. Ray Allen is a big big big catch. But they're still too small to succeed. Play off at the best.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Are you kidding? I wouldn't say "very very far" for Chicago. At all. If fact I'd say Very Very Close. Hell they were one of the best teams in the east this year. While I think Noah doen't fit their needs per say, he's not a bad addition to their roster. I just think they could have goteen a better peripheral shooter or a more defensive player. But you can't say the high energy Joakim Noah is going to bring an already rising team down any. With the Eastern Conference as weak as it is, I can't say that the Bulls are far off from being a championship contender. For god's sake, the Cavaliers represented the Conference. Let me say this again. JeBron James.... just him. Won the east. If you're saying a well built team like the Bulls have NO shot to win the east but one man LeBron can, then you're clearly not watching the same league as me.

I'm with you on Portland not going anywhere soon. But not because of the aquisition of Steve Francis. I don't think he's a franchise killer, but he's not the same as he was when he was a kid in Houston, that is for sure. he did nothing in New York and nothing for Orlando. But that's not to say he can't be anything in Portland. Back when he was in Houston, and did well he had a team around him that was well coached, and well rounded. In Orlando, the team was in shambles and had poor coaching, the same is definitely true in New York. Isiah Thomas is a dung heap of a man and needs to get the hell out of New York. The Knicks need to re-hire Ernie Grunfeld and get back on track. Anyhow back to Portland. I think they're not going anywhere because they're in the same conference as Dallas, San Antonio and Phoenix, three teams that are dominant and will be for the next few years. I'd say in 3-4 years the Blazers, if they keep drafting well and building properly, will be in contention, but these Blazers as is won't be in contention for a little while.

It jhust so happens that I posted my draft analysis in the other NBA thread as Archy made this topic so I won't go over it all again. Archy, its Fred Jones the Knicks got, not Jerome James.

Boston is still going to be a shitty team, even with Ray Allen. There I said it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

RedCydranth wrote:
If you're saying a well built team like the Bulls have NO shot to win the east but one man LeBron can, then you're clearly not watching the same league as me.

The NBA I watched had Spurs vs Cavaliers in the Finals. Le Bron James played for Cleveland Cavaliers. What are the teams in the Finals of the league that you watched?

One man Le Bron can? Not only that he can, he has done it.

Chicago Bulls is not a well built team. To be able to use the term "well built team" (with no single superstar to have success), look at Detroit Pistons with Wallace, Wallace, Prince, Hamilton, Billups, etc. That's a well built team. Wallace, Nocioni, Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, etc are just mediocre. Adding a rookie Noah is not changing anything.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
The NBA I watched had Spurs vs Cavaliers in the Finals. Le Bron James played for Cleveland Cavaliers. What are the teams in the Finals of the league that you watched?


I didn't see the Cavaliers. I saw LeBron James vs. the Spurs. The Cavaliers are not a team, they're a good player and a group of nobodies.

My point is that if a team with one really good player can make the finals, a team that has 5 good players (Wallace, Deng, Hinrich, Gordon and now Noah) stand just as good of a chance, more than likely a better one.

And you think that the Bulls have no leadership? What about Ben Wallace and Ben Gordon? Both are huge leaders on the court. And with the addition of Joakim Noah, the energy level on that team will skyrocket. He's an electric player who riles up the crowd and motivates his teammmates. If you watched the NCAA tournament you clearly saw his effect on the team. He motivates people. He now has to replace the Gator chomp with some horns and a bull kick, but regardless his energy can't be denied. I don't think leadership is an issue in Chicago.

If we were talking about the Knicks or something, Leadership is a definite issue, but I can't see how Chicago suffers from any issues in that department.

The only reason I would think Chicago won't be a champion is their defense. Wallace only averages 2 blocks per game and 1 steal a game. In order for the Bulls to contend with the Pistons they need a better defense. Noah is a great shooter and can play decent outside defense, they lack the ability to block shots and get in their opponents' faces.

I never said Chicago were better than Detroit or were better rounded, but compare Chicago to rest of the league. All of the entire Southeast Division is weaker than Chicago, and that includes the Heat. Shaq and D-Wade isn't well rounded. And forget the Atlantic altogether. The Raptors are the only semblance of a decent team there and let's be honest. They're nothing special. The Nets are too old now and the addition of Ray Allen to the Celts do nothing to get them out of the basement.

This leaves the central. Milwaukee has a good man in Yi now, but really they need more than him to win. The Pacers sucked and aren't getting better. Cleveland is okay, but really its just LeBron who runs that team. As far as well rounded, we saw how not well rounded they were against San Antonio; A real well rounded team. So, basically the only better rounded team in the Eastern Conference is Detroit. If there was one thing that the Cleveland LeBron James showed, it was that Detroit is fallible. So, if Chicago can beat Detroit in the playoffs, they're golden.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

RedCydranth, you can label Cavaliers as "Le Bron James plus nobodies" and I would agree with that. But, and this is a big but, that "Le Bron James plus nobodies" reached the NBA Finals while good teams like Pistons, Heat, Nets, "Bulls" failed. And like Iverson/Sixers case a few years back, it has been proven that "Great player plus nobodies" can reach the NBA Finals.

Obviously that's not to say "good teams" can't do that. They definitely can, and even go on to win the championship like Pistons had done. But at the same time, I still don't consider Bulls as a good team. They're still mediocre to me simply because they're just not going to advance far once the play-off rolls because they're just a bunch of mediocre okay players playing together. There will be no one to step up and bring on their A+ games like Le Bron would when it matters the most. This is quite clear in the last play off when playing against Pistons. During regular season Bulls had 3-1 record against Pistons. Once the playoff rolls, Pistons beat Bulls 4-2 instead (mind you Pistons were even 3-0 up first).

Shaq-Wade is not well-rounded? Then how the heck did they win the championship two seasons ago? They didn't do so well last season because of Shaq's injury. If he's healthy, he still has a few more years to go.

You said that only Central Division matters. Well as far as I know, Bulls was third out of five in the division behind both Pistons (the great all around team) and Cavaliers (oops, I mean Le Bron and buddies). And both Pistons and Cavaliers were in the Eastern Conference Finals. As long as Bulls couldn't even top their own division, they're far away from winning the conference.

Quote:
So, if Chicago can beat Detroit in the playoffs, they're golden.

And as we know ... they couldn't beat Pistons in the playoffs. But then again, if Cleveland can beat San Antonio in the playoffs, they'd be golden too. Good logic, but nothing to do with the real situation.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Fine, I can see we both differ in what we think makes a better team, you side with teams that lopside it with one great player and a cast of nobodies, like LeBorn's team or the A.I. 76ers of old. Meanwhile I believe that a well rounded team should be the better, like the Chicago Bulls, Detroit Pistons and the San Antonio Spurs. All three of those teams may have good players, but none are "Breakaway" players like LeBron, Iverson or Bryant.

The Heat were not well rounded. They had a dominant center (Something I feel every good team should have, which is why I do have hope for Portland down the road) and a cast of mediocre guys who could work well enough. Dwayne Wade stepped up as a rookie that year and became the phenom he is. Before those playoffs, nobody put him in the same category as Carmelo or James. It was those playoffs that made him into the star he is.

But let's look at the current champions, the San Antonio Spurs. They have a dominant big man, Tim Duncan. They have a cast built around him with good skill. Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker and Bruce Bowen are all decent talent that can work around a big man. They are a team, not one man doing all the work. A lot of credit goes to Tim Duncan, but if you look at the numbers in the playoffs, it was his side cast who really made the team champions. That is why Tony Parker got MVP of the Finals.

Quote:
They're still mediocre to me simply because they're just not going to advance far once the play-off rolls because they're just a bunch of mediocre okay players playing together.


If you look at Chicago, they're not unlike the Spurs at all. Ben Wallace is a reliable center that their team can bank on. Built around him is Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon and Luol Deng. Every year Deng has been in the league, he's gotten better. His Field Goal percentage is up, his assists average is up and his defensive rebounds are up every year he's been in the league. He's only getting better. Hinrich is like Ginobili, a decent shooter from the 3 point range and a great assists guy. Ginobili is a bit better but still they're similar. Tony Parker isn't unlike Ben Gordon if you compare their stats. Both do well to compliment their teams. The addition of Joakim Noah gives them the electricity on the court that the Bulls can use to rile up their home crowd, or the away crowds too for that matter. That is something San Antonio has failed to do. Nobody likes the Spurs, except Spurs fans.

You can't discount a team's ability when its definitely there. The Bulls are a qualified team with good players.

I'm not saying that 1 man show teams can't win. Evidence is definitely there to prove me wrong if I did. However, I have more faith in a team that builds around a strong player and makes an actual team. Cleveland were good enough to beat the Detroit Pistons, who just flat out ran out of gas. But they fell short when they found a team that still had the muscle to outplay them. The Pistons were the better team and everyone knows it, but they just flopped. Same as the Dallas and Golden State series. Dallas choked. Everyone knew who was the better team, just not that week.

A lot of times, especially in the weaker Eastern Conference, the team that represents the conference is the team that gets hot at the right time. It happened with Miami and it happened with Cleveland. Sometimes even a well constructed team can't beat a team that is flat out on fire. Cleveland just fell one series short of the championship.

I sooner see Chicago making the championships than Cleveland repeating. That is for sure.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The bulls draft selection can only be classified as excreta that is derived from the said animal their team represents.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

ferrouslupusrex wrote:
The bulls draft selection can only be classified as excreta that is derived from the said animal their team represents.


Noah isn't the best draft pick available at that point (I mean heck, Nick Young was still available), but he's going to fit in along with Chicago. He's not a scorer, but he's damn energetic. If rumors are true that the Bulls are thinking of letting go of Andres Nocioni, then Noah can replace his energy, which I must say he does quite nicely. If you need a comparison, I think Joakim Noah will turn out to be a better Anderson Varejao.

The Bulls still need a low-post scorer, though... yes, Ben Wallace is big and all, but he's not a scorer. Aaron Gray is a Center, yes, but... that would take time. As in, years' time.

Looking more into the draft, I am very dissapointed with the Golden State Warriors. I mean, yes, you get Brandan Wright, but in return you give up quite possibly the #1 player who defines your team's "run and gun, crowd dazzle" in Jason Richardson. While Wright is a decent choice, and Marco Bellinelli is god (or so Europe says anyway), I don't know how that would affect your team.

Celtics? Lose. Seriously. Delonte West was flat-out brilliant last year, he was one of the few reasons along with Gerald Green why the Celtics were interesting. Not only do you lose West, you also lose a decent shooter in Szczerbiak, AND Hoyas bigtown scorer Jeff Green for.... Ray Allen. Don't get me wrong, Ray Allen is a good player, but he's old. Allen is turning 32 this July already, and he's definitely not someone who's going to be there for a long time (3-4 years, I'm putting it.) However, Paul Pierce seems to work well with another guy - remember Pierce-Walker? If Allen and Pierce can coexist with the young ones - Green, Jefferson, and Rondo, then it's probably going to turn out for the better.

Still, Allen isn't exactly the healthiest player, so if Boston wants to maximize what they get, Mr. Allen needs to stay healthy. But is giving up a potential PG, a decent SF and a rookie with high potential for a veteran scorer who isn't going to stay long a good deal? Most probably no.

On another note, I'm not talking about the Laker's pick. Seriously, I was like "Who the hell is Javaris Crittenton?!" (I don't watch NCAA extensively anyway.) And Sun Yue is also a Guard, too. This pretty much seems to indicate that Smush Parker is getting the boot, though.

But is Crittenton going to get playing time? Maybe. Seems interesting o find out who's going to play more - Crittenton or Jordan Farmar. I'm hoping Farmar.

Also, credit should be given to the Spurs for drafting Tiago Splitter. Awesomeness.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The bulls do not need energy. They need points. Noah will not give them that.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Archy wrote:
Looking more into the draft, I am very dissapointed with the Golden State Warriors. I mean, yes, you get Brandan Wright, but in return you give up quite possibly the #1 player who defines your team's "run and gun, crowd dazzle" in Jason Richardson. While Wright is a decent choice, and Marco Bellinelli is god (or so Europe says anyway), I don't know how that would affect your team.


Hey, I'll be the first to agree with you that trading Richardson was a sad day for Warriors fans, but the Warriors needed a way to open up cap space to sign two players who they really don't want to see go the way of free agency: Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins. In Brandan Wright they get a 19-year old who can run up and down the court and play low post defense. They really don't need for him to score much outside. He just needs to bulk that body up some and use that big wingspan of his to clean up the boards and put back any offensive boards for an easy pair.

In Marco Bellinelli they get someone in the Manu Ginobli mold who has already 5-years of pro ball under his belt. One thing the Olympics has shown and the past years has as well is that European players have come a long since the first Dream Team. Bellinelli looked like the steal of the draft during the start of the Summer League. He missed his first couple of inside shots but then got hot quick. He never missed a shot from those early misses and from beat reporters following the team in summer league, he was draining 3's at least 5 feet from behind the arc. Bellinelli also seemed to be quite reckless in driving to the basket which should help in making defenses not just cue on him on the outside.

As for the Richardson trade itself the cap room was what they needed and in return they got two very good players with one set to be an early starter or main bench player his first season in Bellinelli. While they did lose a guy who can score on average 18-25 points a night, they have the players to make up for the points. I mean the problem the Warriors had wasn't finding people who can score. It was finding people who can defend while still able to run up and down the court in the breakneck style of Nellie's system.

I wish J-Rich luck with the Bobcats and thank him for the years he spent with the Warriors, but I'm always for the team first. This draft made the Warriors better both in the short and long-run. With many teams asking for Ellis and Biedrins during the trade deadline and draft day, I rather they extended the contracts to those two than see them walk next year to suddenly become another pair of Agent Zeros and Hibachis.
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