| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Noot
Faithers of the Defend
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Post Count: 3748
Location: The Holy Kingdom of Harmonia
186551 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
 Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:53 am Post subject: |
  |
|
Heh, can't believe I missed this one! :D
I loved playing these games. I still play Melee with my friends now and then, but I have fond memories of wasting many hours on both of these games over the years. My friend probably cared too much about it because when he mastered Pikachu in the N64 version, he was damn near impossible to beat. I'm no expert, but I think he has the fastest grab out there in that game. I couldn't touch him! (And my specialty lies in being able to flick people around all over the place.) Then he would always toss me off the side and guard the edge so you couldn't get back and *sigh* I hated playing him after that.
But melee is different because they really decreased the distance your throw goes. You have to soften them up first then chuck 'em, or it's not as effective. I actually prefer Melee to the N64 version because of the number of choices available and also a great selection of stages, but probably more so because I'm just really good at melee. ;)
Characters of choice: Captain Falcon (my favorite in the N64 game), Donkey Kong (favorite in Melee), Link, and Luigi (two honorable mentions)
Stage of choice: Hyrule Castle in N64 and Mushroom kingdom in Melee (forget which one, but the one with the huge obstacle in the middle, and you can jump on the red/blue/green switches to make items appear)
Items of choice: Baseball bat, pokeball
_________________
~~Harmonian Tenhei Star~~
It's hard to bargle naudle zauss with all these marbles in my mouth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Tonberry
The Tonberry Eggsperience
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Post Count: 18319
Location: Budehuc Castle
1819401 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Well, I've looked into the advanced moves of the game to try to improve my strategy. I've mastered L-Cancelling and Short Hopping, but I seem to be having trouble with Wave Dashing. Can anyone tell me how to do that better? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cedric
Sol Ciel
Joined: 21 May 2004
Post Count: 4883
Location: Aya Sankha
472542 Potch
200 Soldiers
62 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
Good think you got L-caneclling down, because I say that's the most important aspect to the game. (Aside from don't fall off the screen)
The very moment you jump off the ground (probably half a second or less) you air dash back to the ground (remember you're technically in the air) at a diagonal angle toward or away from your opponent. Try and practice it at training mode at a lower speed and make your way up from there. I know a lot of people say to practice it with Luigi since he gains the most out of a wavedash, but if you don't use Luigi, then why bother right?
Although people who have terrible traction like Shiek, Donkey Kong, and Falcon don't really make too much good use out of it. They have other stuff they can use. They're really had to practice with, so hopefully, you're a Mario, Fox, Marth, Samus, etc. user that actually wave dashes well.
Now it's not only important to know how to wave dash, but you also have to know when to do it. As you probably know, you can do anything out of a wavedash whether it be a smash attack with the C-Stick, or block then throw; practically anything. I usually wavedash forward when people start reading my combos very well. I wait for them to get used to a combo, then I'll integrate wavedashing forward during the middle of the game to throw off their timing.
When I wavedash forward I will:
Follow it with a smash attack - If I'm Falco, I'll aklternate this my wave smashing or L-Smashing (L cancelling smashing)
Follow it with a dash attack - Good for people with great dash moves like Fox and Shiek.
Follow with a special move - I can only think of doing this with Fox, since his reflector infinite (some characters) is really good.
Stand Still - as a mix up
immediately follow it with a wavedash away from the opponent, and mix it up from there - what I will do about 60 percent of the time. It really gets in their heads.
*
I actually wavedash back more than forward because most people will try to punish you from the air. They try to air attack me only to wavedash back and whiffer them with a C-stick smash attack (because you can do this during the dash)
Crouch cancelling is really important too. Especially if you're Peach.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tonberry
The Tonberry Eggsperience
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Post Count: 18319
Location: Budehuc Castle
1819401 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks. I'm primarily a Falco user myself so I should be able to get this to work.
My current problem is that my wavedashing barely moves me at all. Is it possible that I'm either doing it wrong or not the best way? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wataru
The Light Fantastic
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Post Count: 2105
59113 Potch
0 Soldiers
515589 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Two of my favorite things to do in this game are to have four players all chosing the Ice Climbers. Eight people on screen running around makes you forget who you are. Lotta fun.
Anotherthing is a game Nailo made up called "Pikacide." Everyone (up to four) plays Pikachu and you just kill yourself as many times as you can by falling off platforms into the abyss. The ship level works well for this. You can try to kill another player to lower their suicide count but you can only win by having the highest count of times you jumped off the cliff. Pikchu lemmings. It may mot sound like fun, but it a hoot to watch.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mengo
Self-proclaimed Genius
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Post Count: 75
Location: France, but not the Vincent de Boule one.
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I played melee for hours and hours.
Well, i use mainly Roy. Once you can master the twin blade thingy, he can deal tons of damages, and i'm not even speaking about his counter. Smash Attack ? Counter. Hammer ? Counter. You got to train to use it properly, but once you can, whoo !
The fire blade is also good when the opponent is trying to come back on the map.
Well, of course, his sword is not as long as the Marth's one, but Marth can be efficient only with the edge of the sword. It's more easy to do high damage with Roy.
Of course, his air-attacks are totally crappy, but you can do aerial counter, so why bother with the A Button ?
Hm, i like to play with Dr. Mario too. His Z are crazys, and his cape rocks.
I don't like Link/Young link. well, first, I don't like the character (don't get me wrong, i like most of the zelda games, but i don't like the hero) , and I don't like projectiles . . .
Oh, and Jigglypuff is a cheap abuser. Can't bear it. I only like sleeping Jigglypuff. Near my Roy. Who's charging the Fire Blade.
Well, got a question, are you planning to buy the Smash Bros. Online on Nintendo Revolution, wenn it will be released ? I will. For sure. Even if I buy the rev. only for this game, i'll buy it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cedric
Sol Ciel
Joined: 21 May 2004
Post Count: 4883
Location: Aya Sankha
472542 Potch
200 Soldiers
62 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Everyone's Grudge wrote: |
Thanks. I'm primarily a Falco user myself so I should be able to get this to work.
My current problem is that my wavedashing barely moves me at all. Is it possible that I'm either doing it wrong or not the best way? |
While falco makes great use out of it, he will never be able to glide very far because of his traction. Compared to Fox, he has great traction. Actually, wavedashing with Falco isn't too useful, because the only thing I use it for (With falco anyway) is to fake out people. I already gave the example of people trying to hit me with an attack coming down, so I'd wavedash backwards with anyone and then F-tilt (forward A) or smash attack him. But after 2 times, they usually learn and see it coming. The other thing i do with Falco is when i edgeguard the opponent. Many of my friends assume that everytime I edgeguard I'll be waiting for a smash attack, so they learned not to air-dodge until I make a move.
I fake them out here again either by throwing off one fast jab to bait their air-dodge and punish them on the way out. Either that or Wavedash in place (straight down, no angle. This is a technique at times too) to bait their dodge again and take them out.
Since you're a falco player, you really need the short-hop blasters. This, like his f-smash (forward) and d-smash (down) should be abused. Short blasting is his most crucial ability. Just in case you don't know how to do it, basically, you short hop and fire a laser but you immediately fast fall to the ground. If you do it right, the laser will be near the ground forcing your opponent to jump over it, block it, or be stunned by it.
The reason why this is good is because it's exactly the same as L-cancelling. If he's still in his blaster animation when he hits the ground it's basically an L-cencel. All lag time is cut off and you can follow it up with anything immediately. You can keep doing the short hop blasters to close the distance (you should be moving towards your opponent when you're doing this most of the time) or when you're close enough, spike him, neutral A, juggle him, etc. This tactic doesn't work as well in ares where the ground isn't flat, but you should practice it.
| Quote: |
Well, i use mainly Roy. Once you can master the twin blade thingy, he can deal tons of damages, and i'm not even speaking about his counter. Smash Attack ? Counter. Hammer ? Counter. You got to train to use it properly, but once you can, whoo !
|
What's that? Is that his combo thing? I'm not much of a Roy user but I am a Marth user. His Dancing Blade (I'm assuming that's the version of Roy's attack you're talking about) is useless. I only need the first part and that's only when I need to make it to the edge. Roy's combo is better of course.
Ahh counter . . . whoever came up with that move needs to be promoted. See, I'm fine with Marth's low-damage counter. It lasts way longer than Roy and usually, I can rack up damage with Marth easily anyway. Maybe I've been playing him too much, but I can tell when someone wants to counter me. Of course I get hit with it like anyone else, but I usually have my own ways to deal with it eventually. Chain-throwing, wavedash baiting, and other similar tactics.
| Quote: |
| The fire blade is also good when the opponent is trying to come back on the map. |
That's a risky move in my book. Smash attacks are better to me.
| Quote: |
| Well, of course, his sword is not as long as the Marth's one, but Marth can be efficient only with the edge of the sword. It's more easy to do high damage with Roy. |
Oh I can't let that one slide at all my friend. The real truth to Marth is that the edge (while it is more powerful) only truly serves to add range to his attack. When I use Marth, I use close but, fast attacks and severly spam the opponent into death. I short hop, L-cancel his f-air (forward attack in the air) into another f-air and do that move over and over again. I will mix it up with neutral airs, but I rarely stay on the ground. I barely even smash attack with him. He really doesn't need it.
| Quote: |
| Of course, his air-attacks are totally crappy, but you can do aerial counter, so why bother with the A Button ? |
Nah, they're ok. Just slow that's all. Doesn't mean you shouldn't use them though.
| Quote: |
| Hm, i like to play with Dr. Mario too. His Z are crazys, and his cape rocks. |
I agree. Crappy range on his smash compared to Mario, though. But what's z?
| Quote: |
I don't like Link/Young link. well, first, I don't like the character (don't get me wrong, i like most of the zelda games, but i don't like the hero) , and I don't like projectiles . . .
Oh, and Jigglypuff is a cheap abuser. Can't bear it. I only like sleeping Jigglypuff. Near my Roy. Who's charging the Fire Blade. |
I don't like link either. But I know a few projectile spammers that make him annoying, though.
Jiggs is awesome! Especially against a heavy opponent. Throw up in the air, and rest. It's horribly cheap.
*
A few friends and I decided to go to Evolution to watch those hardcore Marvel vs. Capcom, CVS, etc. players, but there were people in Cal Poly Pomona's parking lot with cubes and melee set out. We all eventually planned videos for all the characters and put it in Smash Boards, but the link's expired. (they're still doing homerun contests I think) A friend and I did Fox, so I wanted to post it up here.
But people showed me this other one and it was just about as good. His is more flashy than ours because he was showing off a bit (shine infinites are everywhere here), but it is very similar to what we did. (Shine combos, L-Cancelling, fast wavedashing, etc.) And don't be discouraged. This type of thing is never 100% pulloffable. He probably spend hours of matches just trying to make this video. I know we did. Out of 5 matches, we probably only used ONE part of ONE match to make a video. When you see actual gameplay videos, no one is this fancy all the time. It's more like mind games.
Anyway, enjoy.
http://www.ssbm.it/musicvids/ShinedBlind.wmv
[/quote]
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aesa
Those Who Slumber
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Post Count: 3238
Location: Barko Saywa
427118 Potch
250 Soldiers
5 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I haven' played for over half a year but my best charatcer was most definitly Fox (yeah!!) Long range attack and good closer quarters..
_________________
The setting sun means the rise of a new day...
...excepting for Ragnarok, of course
~Tinto~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mengo
Self-proclaimed Genius
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Post Count: 75
Location: France, but not the Vincent de Boule one.
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Ced The Lad"]
| Everyone's Grudge wrote: |
| Ahh counter . . . whoever came up with that move needs to be promoted. See, I'm fine with Marth's low-damage counter. It lasts way longer than Roy and usually, I can rack up damage with Marth easily anyway. Maybe I've been playing him too much, but I can tell when someone wants to counter me. Of course I get hit with it like anyone else, but I usually have my own ways to deal with it eventually. Chain-throwing, wavedash baiting, and other similar tactics. |
Yep, Marth counter got the advantage of being longer compared to the Roy one, but you can do some good mind-games with is though (well with both), and that may cause lot of % . My most common situation is when you're falling and an opponent is waiting for you with a smash attack. Don't say anything, and just press down-b at the moment of the impact. Of course you better get used to the timing or else . . . :D
| Quote: |
| That's a risky move in my book. Smash attacks are better to me. |
It's risky only if it's a 4-players melee. The fire blade can be charged for ~5 seconds, while a basic smash attack lasts only 3 seconds. You don't have to care so much of timing with the fire blade. On world like Final Destination (oh crap, i don't know the english names -_- . Well the flatest world, where we fight the Hands and the Giga Bowser) it's almost impossible to dodge.
| Quote: |
| I agree. Crappy range on his smash compared to Mario, though. But what's z? |
I pick Dr. Mario over Mario only for the fact that i liked his look better, and for his Sexy Kick. :D
And huh, I didn't know how to say it, but for me, Z is reffering to the throw. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thanatos
Army of Thralls
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Post Count: 64
Location: The Zexen Confederacy
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wow, Super Smash Bros. Melee is one of my favourite games ever! I play a lot with my little brother, he likes to be Kirby all the time and he likes to fly away and use the stone move over and over again. So I just be Roy and up+B him when he flies and fire blade him when he's a rock. Sometimes I can cause serious damage that way :D.
I think I'm quite good at the game, I'm the best in my whole circle of friends (most of which are Link abusers), but none of us it that good really, I mean we done wavedash or L-cancel or anything like that.
My favourite charaters: Roy, Marth, Capt. Falcon.
Least favourite: Zelda/Sheik (I just can't get used to her/him)
Favourite items: big heart, pokeball
Least favourite items: hammer, boh-omb (how many times I've been stupidly killed by these...)
PS. Love the vid Ced The Lad :D.
_________________
"How come only the captain......" -- Random soldier #2314, stationed at North Sparrow Pass. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cedric
Sol Ciel
Joined: 21 May 2004
Post Count: 4883
Location: Aya Sankha
472542 Potch
200 Soldiers
62 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I only wish I could show you our Fox Video. We worked so hard on it, but it will have to do.
| Quote: |
| It's risky only if it's a 4-players melee. The fire blade can be charged for ~5 seconds, while a basic smash attack lasts only 3 seconds. You don't have to care so much of timing with the fire blade. On world like Final Destination (oh crap, i don't know the english names -_- . Well the flatest world, where we fight the Hands and the Giga Bowser) it's almost impossible to dodge. |
You're right. It's called Final Destination in the English version too.
The best edgeguards aren't the ones that kill in one hit, but the ones that make sure they never come back. Hit him ten times if you want, if he doesn't come back, it was worth it. Here's my beef with the Fire Blade. Since you have to charge it, you're basically stuck in place. This leaves a lot of options for your opponent to do some fancy technique to avoid the attack altogether. Sometimes I will Edgeguard with Marth's version of this move but it's last on my priority list. Even after counter.
1st priority is that forward a in the air. This is the best move to edguard for me (one jump only) because you take the fight to the incoming opponent sending him at a 40 degree angle and repeat it over and over again until he dies. Or if not that, you short hop all the time faking out your opponent and finish him off with this.
2nd priority is the smash. Plain and simple. Hit him and he should be gone. If not, repeat.
3rd is counter but only if they come from below.
Last is Marth's version of Fire Blade. I don't like waiting to charge this move just to make it strong when other moves will do. But to each his own.
| Quote: |
I pick Dr. Mario over Mario only for the fact that i liked his look better, and for his Sexy Kick. Very Happy
And huh, I didn't know how to say it, but for me, Z is reffering to the throw. |
Haha. His Sex Kick (neutral A in the air) is horribly broken (up there with Samus'). Have you also noticed that his b-air (back a in the air) acts like a spike? Try it out and see. You'll be frustrating people left and right.
And I hate Shiek too. She's too cheap. It's no fun playing as her. She has that annoying dash attack and spammable neutral hits on the ground.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lord Vader
Lord's Minions
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Post Count: 991
Location: Lordlake
4417 Potch
721 Soldiers
20000 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:50 pm Post subject: Smash Brothers |
|
|
My first game for Nintendo 64 was Super Smash Brothers.
I think Smash Brothers is one of the best games on the Nintendo 64.
It is a great multiplayer game. The multiplayer adds major replay value to the game. I don't have gamecube, but I have friends that do and have Super Smash Brothers Melee. I play it almost every time I go to one of my friends house. The Gamecube version is also one of the greatest games for that system. Again the reply value is great on Melee because of multiplayer. It is really fun to play with your friends. As for being an underated game, I don't think it is. I know a lot of people that enjoy the game and know it is a good game to play. X Play rated it good too. I think it is known as a great game both on the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube.
That is just my opinion. They are both great games.
_________________
General of the Godwin Army
United States Navy ATF-HT |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Exile
Sword Brothers
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Post Count: 7365
Location: Lion's Maw
6894145 Potch
200 Soldiers
91 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I watched that shinedblind video Ced, I've never played the game though so I can't say I was massively impressed, I'm sure it's hard to do though and probably more impressive if you know the game! I actually, as a matter of fact, got kinda bored of how samey it was, knock 'em off the edge, jump down bounce them off Fox, jump and grab the side, bounce them away again, watch them fall, nevermind though eh?
_________________
Cry woe, destruction, ruin, and decay -
The worst is death, and death will have his day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tonberry
The Tonberry Eggsperience
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Post Count: 18319
Location: Budehuc Castle
1819401 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| That fox thing was amazing. Was it a combination of wavedashing and shield? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cedric
Sol Ciel
Joined: 21 May 2004
Post Count: 4883
Location: Aya Sankha
472542 Potch
200 Soldiers
62 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's ok Phil. Yeah, the real point of the video was to see how fast it really can be. There's also a bit of showing off because anticipation is part of the plan as well.
Grudge, yes, it's basically everything. If you're fast with the controller, then as soon as you hit the ground with the wavedash, you can automatically do it again. So if you're fast, you look like you're sliding eevrywhere. This only works with characters who have a good wavedash, though. These videos are nice, but what you really want are actual game footage to see what kinds of stuff you can pull off with reletive ease.
The most important thing in that Shineblind video, is the L-Cancelling. It doesn't matter if you hit anything or not, but mostly everyone I know has made it a habit to L-Cancel everytime they jump in the air (pnding if they can of course) The shield itself is considered a spike because of the trajectory it send people. It really turned into a cheesy move after the N64 version, because it sets up for infinites (very hard to do) or just rack up damage. Most of the time, my friends select people with high priority Up-B special moves, so I need a bit more practice on it as well.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
