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The Dark Knight (here be SPOILERS!!!)
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Calvin

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I already bought my tickets online, and one thing that really surprised me is the runtime, which is listed as 165 minutes. That is quite long, and it makes me think that they really wanted to do the story justice--movies like this often will get condensed into a 2 hour or 2 hour and 15 minute runtime to make it more "palatable," and I'm glad that won't be the case here.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Saw it last night at an advance screening and planning to see it again tonight at another. I can honestly say that to call this film just a superhero comic book movie would be to do it an injustice. Take out the batsuit and some of the gadgetry and this movie can stand alongside some of the best crime dramas of the past half-century.
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Tonberry

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I wish Joseph Conrad had been in my theater.

The people who didn't understand this movie made me understand it.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I was wondering if anyone else felt the Heart of Darkness vibe coming from the film's plot and themes. I've seen it three times now and I still say that each viewing brings something new for me to think about.
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Tonberry

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Oh definitely. Gotham City is the film's own "Heart of Darkness." And I feel that the Joker fills the shoes of a fully erupted Mr. Kurtz, while the dynamic nature of Two Face shows a similar regression into the darkness, from beginning to end. I also felt that viewer response to the movie played a sort of hidden theme. While the Joker killed people in odd ways, such as with the pencil, my theater audience laughed. It was pretty sickening. It was as if I were in a theater amongst a multitude of Jokers. In that sense, when you think of Mr. Kurtz as the everyman, and apply that principle to this film, it makes a lot of sense to see the Joker hidden inside many of us normal people. Perhaps I didn't articulate that all too well, but that was the greatest meaning I found in the film.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, I saw all three characters of Batman/Dent/Joker as being the three levels of Kurtz. You had Batman willing to push right up to the edge to get the job done even if it means using some illegal and morally-grey actions. Then there's Dent who starts off being the idealistic one but also one who was easier to corrupt. Then there's Joker who is Kurtz right up to the end.

Really, this film is ripe for deconstruction. It's not shy about pointing out some of its Nietzchien roots and especially it's Carl Jung influences. Film-style there's a lot of Michael Mann in the look and feel of the movie. The first ten-minutes could be a scene right out of Heat with the night scenes in the Gotham streets something from Collateral.
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Tonberry

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Tullaryx wrote:
Well, I saw all three characters of Batman/Dent/Joker as being the three levels of Kurtz. You had Batman willing to push right up to the edge to get the job done even if it means using some illegal and morally-grey actions.


I see what you mean. That's interesting. I sort of saw Batman as Marlow, especially in his observations of Dent's progression, and his ability to prevent himself from going over the edge himself, but I can see Kurtz too. Well, you're supposed to see Kurtz in everyone, so that makes sense.
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Kikito

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Saw The Dark Knight today. It totally kicked my ass in all ways possible. I think that is all I have to say about it :p
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Starslasher

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well i just saw the movie two days ago. Really loved it, if only because of thee Joker. I actually am anticipating Heath Ledger, even though he has passed away, as being nominated for best Supporting Actor for the Oscars next year, seriously.


Well, would you connect the circumstances America faces in a post 9/11 world with this movie? well, the writer of this article does. Truth be told, i didn't think about that after i watched the movie. I felt that this article might have stretched it a bit, or was at least being a bit sublte about the post 9/11 context. And then again, there are a lot of movies that take in that same context nowadays.

But i'd like your thoughts about this article.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

His article actually points out much of what I and some of my friends saw and got out of the themes and plot of the film. Though the author fails to add that while there are scenes and dialogue that might seem to be very anti-Bush and Cheney --- how they go about the war against terror --- the film also makes a subtle point in showing how sometimes a public will allow draconian and morally ambiguous tactics by an individual or a group if it meant it kept them safe while at the same time decrying it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think that article is looking for a context that doesn't exist. But, then again, I filter out most social commentary in movies. I don't care about parallels to 9/11. I went to watch an entertaining movie, and that's what I got. Now Heath Ledger's death is all the more sad, because his Joker was absolutely fantastic, and it's a shame that we'll never get to see that again. Maybe someone can bring the Joker to life just as well, but either way, he deserves an Oscar for that performance. I'd go so far as to say that he outshadowed Batman in the movie. My only complaint might be that it started to feel a bit long. But, I can't say what and where they should have cut stuff, so it was necessary.
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Calvin

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

While the Joker killed people in odd ways, such as with the pencil, my theater audience laughed. It was pretty sickening. It was as if I were in a theater amongst a multitude of Jokers.


I've seen it twice and both times I heard people in the audience laugh--including myself. I have no qualms with your characterization of it being sickening, since I was rather disgusted with the fact that I found it funny. But it was funny, in its way. The Joker is so insane and without restraint that it just became comical to me in a dark way. Particularly the hospital scene and its aftermath I found quite funny--because despite the fact that the scene was quite serious and showed something horrible, it was the way the Joker went about it that made it funny to me. In the Joker's words, it was like watching a dog chase a car.

Sailor: I agree completely that the Joker was the main attraction here. I think Ledger will at least get nominated. People will say that he only got it because he died, which may be true--but I don't think the Oscar people are that great at picking the best of the year, so this year's potential misplaced award would actually be in the right place for once.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Calvin wrote:
Quote:

While the Joker killed people in odd ways, such as with the pencil, my theater audience laughed. It was pretty sickening. It was as if I were in a theater amongst a multitude of Jokers.


I've seen it twice and both times I heard people in the audience laugh--including myself. I have no qualms with your characterization of it being sickening, since I was rather disgusted with the fact that I found it funny. But it was funny, in its way. The Joker is so insane and without restraint that it just became comical to me in a dark way. Particularly the hospital scene and its aftermath I found quite funny--because despite the fact that the scene was quite serious and showed something horrible, it was the way the Joker went about it that made it funny to me. In the Joker's words, it was like watching a dog chase a car.


No matter how clever the Joker was with that pencil joke, i didn't laugh, i was just a bit startled, mainly because the THUD! on the table was so loud in the theatre.

I felt that the hospital scene is the breadwinner for Ledger. I felt that this is the scene in which he was able to sum up the Joker, in which he tried to delve into his mind and explain his persona, which wasn't explored into by any other Jokers (i haven't seen the original 1989 Batman movie, by the way, so you can argue about that statement with this).
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, I have seen the 1989 one and comparing Ledger's work against Nicholson is not even a fair comparison for Nicholson's. Ledger's performance is the definitive one not just because it really showed The Joker in the truest way, but also the performance was better and greater than Nicholson's.
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Kikito

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I saw the movie a second time on Friday(and probably will see it a third time on monday). While I haven't read Heart of Darkness, from what Tullaryx and Tonberry have mentioned, I see all of those things that were mentioned. The three main characters in the story representing three very basic parts of humanity, as well as the comparison to the modern day world we live in.

Really, to find such richness in themes in a movie of this genre has probably advanced the genre quite a bit.

As for Heath Ledger's performance, I do have to agree that it feels much more complex than Nicholson's back in Batman. However, I wouldn't attribute this completely to Heath's or Jack's talents as an actor, but also give credit to the fact that The Joker written in the 1989 movie and The Joker written in The Dark Knight have a world of difference between them. The new movie depicts a deeper, richer character, while the 1989 movie showed a gangster turned crazy. However, I do have to applaud the late Mr. Ledger for his excellent performance of an excellent character. Not sure if he'll ever even be nominated for an Oscar for his work in this movie, but in my eyes, he's done the best job of portraying the Joker and even transcending what could even be expected of him to make The Dark Knight one of the best movies, if not the best one out this year.
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