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The Dark Knight (here be SPOILERS!!!)
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wow, I am quite impressed with your knowledge of all things Batman that's not film-related but more canonical facts from the comic books. :)
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Elzamine

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Batman is pretty much the only DC thing I'm semi-well versed on. I just really like comics I suppose ^^ I played this game called Vs system for awhile, had both DC and Marvel comics While I had a good knowledge base before of Batman comics, the game inspired me to go read up a bit more on them haha. I wasn't overly impressed with any of the marvel x-men women, and I took very well to the DC ones related to gotham or birds of prey, so I guess the characters for that series just stick with me more.

I actually know more about marvel.. or well, I know a lot about the morlocks, and a decent bit on most xmen. Everyone I know doesn't care about the Morlocks though haha, so the info goes to waste XD

Either way, good comic book characters portrayed good in live action in movies sits well with me. Dc failed pretty much up until Batman Begins. Marvel is up and down in parts with it's X-men and Spiderman films. At the moment DC is far ahead with the Batman movies though, so I suppose they have my attention :)
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Elzamine wrote:
Dc failed pretty much up until Batman Begins.


I'm going to assume you weren't to high on the Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher Batmans. I mean true Batman fans would just be ok with the Burton films of Batman at best and seething with anger at worst.
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Elzamine

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think it was more my dislike for the actors than the actual portrayal of Batman.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, from what I've seen so far I must say the Jack Nicholson portrayal of Joker will soon be washed from my memories. Heath Ledger really seems to want to portray The Joker as the psychotic serial killer the character really is instead of the over-the-top clown Nicholson portrayed him as.
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Elzamine

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Much more intense. Of course, the time periods they were done in has a lot to do with what was done with the character. Regardless, for once I'm in agreement that change can be nice. I'm seriously looking forward to it.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Frankly, I don't know shit about the canonical version of Batman. All I care is if this will be as cool as the Batman Begins movie. That was pure awesomeness. If this can keep it up, then super. If it can't, then it fails. Really, just don't become another Batman and Robin. As long as there's no more Bat-nipples, then I think we can all agree that it's a good step forward.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've gotta ask: what makes someone a "true fan"? Not just when it comes to Batman, but in anything in general? While I, personally, haven't had much exposure to the Batman comics, I wouldn't say Jack Nicholson's portrayal of Joker has been any worse than any other portrayal in a non-comic medium.

What I've found is people tend to pull out the "true fan" rhetoric when they believe their opinion is the only valid one and anyone who disagrees with it is obviously not a "true fan." (I guess I'm not a "true fan" of Transformers since I don't really care for the recent movie or animated offerings...)

I've also got to wonder about what really counts as canon in comics when companies have a habit of rebooting and reinventing things at the drop of a hat? Has this happened with Batman... I'm not too sure, since I have had very little exposure to the comics.

Have I mentioned that I've always hated the so called "true fan" (or, similarly, the "no one is a bigger fan of x than me") nonsense?
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, true fans look at the canon of the comic they're fans of and see that as the source material that needs to be used. Yes, comic book companies have retconned titles and characters to suit the times they're in and give them a more current to the times update. But the basic backstory and history usually stay the same for the characters that have lasted decades. I remember a couple of retcon changes to Peter Parker's early history Marvel did in the mid to late-90's which just backfired not because they weren't interesting but that they just changed the whole character's motivation and backstory to the point that made Peter Parker and Spider-Man's past history useless.

When it came to the previous Batman films true fans of the character had much to complain about not because of the look of the film, though for some it made Gotham look cartoonish and too stylish, but changes to the character and characters in the mythos which made them too different from the comics. I've always been of the mind that the best comic book characters really do not need adjustment from the comic pages to the big screen. It's the one thing that should always stay constant since of all the aspects of the comic book mythos a writer has it's the characters they have most control over. The look of the comics can change and even some backstory may get updated to make them more current but motivations and personality that's been created and added to by some of the best writers in the business should never be tossed aside to suit a person hired to do a job.

In my opinion, Burton's film might have looked great from a stylist point of view but his handling of the characters themselves lent more to satisfy Burton's quirkiness and attitude and less about telling the story of the Bruce Wayne/Batman character. This is why the villains for some reason always seemed to upstage the main character. He made Batman a prop by which to revolve the villains around. Of all the characters he got right it was Catwoman. Burton and Nicholson's take on Joker made him out to be a gangster with a flair for the dramatic. There was never any real menace in the character. It was just Jack Nicholson in make-up playing up Jack Nicholson.

What Christopher Nolan and David Goyer got right with Batman Begins was to concentrate on Bruce Wayne and Batman as the centerpiece of the movie. They also went the more realistic route when it came to portraying the world of Batman and Gotham. Of all the superhero characters in superhero comics Batman always had the more down-to-earth setting and characters. They also leaned heavily on the canon of the Batman mythos and used that as the foundation for the story.

As a true fan I'm not blind to the fact that certain things just cannot work on the big-screen. The uniforms the X-Men used in the comics would look ridiculous on film, but those are cosmetic changes. The changes Nolan and Goyer made to the Batman canon were cosmetic rather than changes to character. Those who want no changes to be made are not true fans but more fanboys.
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Elzamine

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The 'true fan' title sort of makes me uncomfortable too, actually. I do like the points you've made though, Tull.

I have to agree that Burton's Catwoman was pretty good. I would like to see a remake of her though, where they push her thievery a bit, too, instead of just the insanity side of things.

I agree completely with them downplaying Batman before though. The choice of what villians to start off with really played a major part in Batman Begins though. Ra's was a great villan, he had reasoning for his actions, and I really do think he though he was doing the best thing. I thought it was a good villan for Batman to start off with, it helped destroy that whole white and black, good and bad image. It really pushed what Batman stands for, how he thinks. Just the fact that he didn't kill Ra's, but instead said he didn't have to save him.

I don't know if I can express how pleased I was with that movie haha, but it's why I'm so excited for Dark Knight :)
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Elzamine wrote:
I agree completely with them downplaying Batman before though. The choice of what villians to start off with really played a major part in Batman Begins though. Ra's was a great villan, he had reasoning for his actions, and I really do think he though he was doing the best thing. I thought it was a good villan for Batman to start off with, it helped destroy that whole white and black, good and bad image. It really pushed what Batman stands for, how he thinks. Just the fact that he didn't kill Ra's, but instead said he didn't have to save him.


Yeah, with the previous non-Nolan Batman films they never really fully explored Bruce Wayne's motivations. We're just told he does what he does because his parents were killed in front of him when he was young. We never find out what he did to become Batman. And yes, Batman Begins finally showed just how fine the line is between Batman and the villains he fights. In fact, when you compare him to other superhero films he's practically a bad guy with the way he acts.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

http://omg.yahoo.com/heath-ledger-found-dead-in-nyc/news/5898

Wow. Breaking news that Heath Ledger has died. So very sad for someone so young. :(
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

BlackKnightYuber wrote:
http://omg.yahoo.com/heath-ledger-found-dead-in-nyc/news/5898

Wow. Breaking news that Heath Ledger has died. So very sad for someone so young. :(


A topic has already been made about this here: http://www.suikox.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31480.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Oops, sorry about that. I just found the thread and responded to it. Such a sad turn of events.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Just days away and from what I've been hearing from people I know who have seen an advanced screening the film is more like a noir crime drama than a typical superhero movie. That alone gives me hope that this movie will more than live to the hype its gotten since it was announced.
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