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Rune hunter
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 Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: A few question about homosexuality |
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Well I'm kinda debating the topic about homosexual with someone and right now and the person I'm debating has been making some disturbing(or ludicrous claims) I can't really respond becouse I don't have all the neccesary info and was wondering if you guys can help. Here are some of the things he said:
1)Nearly 22% of homosexuals were molested by there parents/relatives.
2)Kids(specifically adopted kids) who live with homosexual parents are more likely to be molested than kids who live in heterosexual parents
3)Homosexuals are responsible for the spread of AIDS(he even used the fact that the first cases of HIV were found in 5 gay guys in Miami). |
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Yvl
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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1)Nearly 22% of homosexuals were molested by there parents/relatives.
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Bullshit.
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2)Kids(specifically adopted kids) who live with homosexual parents are more likely to be molested than kids who live in heterosexual parents
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Bullshit.
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3)Homosexuals are responsible for the spread of AIDS(he even used the fact that the first cases of HIV were found in 5 gay guys in Miami).
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Bullshit.
In fact, these get more and more ludicrous as the list goes on.
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Zaleria
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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You're on a debate eh? The first thing to do is to ask him where he got these claims. Ask for sources. If he cannot present any, then don't waste your time with him anymore. His claims are full of fallacies. The third one, for example, is a hasty generalization.
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Shad
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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4) Homosexuality is significantly more prevalent in people with the first name "Jay".
5) Homosexuals are 85% more likely to be abducted by aliens.
6) FACT: Homosexuals don't brush their teeth. |
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Ninjar
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Tell him he's a dumbass and kick him in the balls. That always works, but yeah, those all seem pretty much absurd. Did I say seem, I meant are. |
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Gil-galad
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| 3)Homosexuals are responsible for the spread of AIDS(he even used the fact that the first cases of HIV were found in 5 gay guys in Miami). |
I believe the commonly accepted theory on the origination of the HIV virus has to do with the consumption of the blood of a monkey during a ritual of some sort in Africa, no? The virus wasn't deadly to non-humans, however proved very harmful to the human immune system. I think that's how it goes, but I'm hardly an expert on this subject.
On to a subject more relating to the topic: HIV is definitely a major issue in the gay community, as it is the straight community. The only difference is that many gay men feel that anal sex is a lot more 'risk free' when compared to sex, because of the fact that there's no chance of children, of course. So for that fact condoms weren't really commonly used until HIV became much more of issue-- and many gay men still don't commonly use condom. The situation is definitely improving with regards to safe sex, though. However, I don't see why this terrible virus spreading can even be associated with a single sexual orientation. After all, if a straight man has HIV, does that mean that he has had sex with another man? No, of course not.
The other questions are like Yvl said-- usual bullshit. Homophobes feel the need to make up things to make them feel good about their hate.
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Rune hunter
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| You're on a debate eh? The first thing to do is to ask him where he got these claims. Ask for sources. If he cannot present any, then don't waste your time with him anymore. His claims are full of fallacies. The third one, for example, is a hasty generalization. |
Its more of an informal debate really. I was asking on another forums(the Philippines Ragnarok Online Forum) about how they feel about "same-sex relations" and then he suddenly comes and says things the ones I have mentioned. This is also something else he said:
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No less than Alfred Kinsey (the originator of the 10% myth) found in his surveys that the leading cause of homosexual orientation was, as he phrased it, “Early homosexual experience with adults or peers.
You said:
And you know we can't simple conclude that he simply meant that people who experiment with same-sex activities(rather than being sexual abused by someone) are more likely to continue exploring there sexuality.
The key word there is "early" meaning "childhood" or a "minor". So you think that he simply meant that the "people" you are referring to are minors who are merely experimenting same-sex activities voluntarily and just exploring their sexuality with an adult? And you think there's nothing wrong with it? But as you can see, your views are just plainly unacceptable and scandalous to any decent society.
What kind of a human being would want to engage in sexual activities with a child? And then just think of it as "experimenting with same-sex activities" and "exploring their sexuality"? You don't even know the effects of these traumatic experiences to children. They will be scarred-for-life. Do you know that child abuse is a crime in many countries including the Philippines?
If you think that there is nothing wrong with these acts, and you think they are mentally stable persons, then think again. I think there is a significant danger for a child to grow up in a homosexual couple.
Although I do not discount the fact that child abuse cases can also happen in heterosexual couples, the risk is greater in homosexual couples.
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I truly don't know much about this Kinsey guys but was wondering did he really say "Early homosexual experience with adults or peers if he did what did he truly mean by that?
About the AIDS this is basically what he said:
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To start of, you have to know the reputation of sailors/seamen with regards to their sexual lifestyles. Sailors/seamen have to live on the sea for months and away from their wives. Being deprived of the opportunity to be with their wives, they resort to finding sexual gratification from prostitutes. It should not come as a surprise if they were detected to have HIV (I understand that HIV is not yet AIDS) because they have multiple sex partners. What do they have in common with homosexuals? I hope I won't repeat this again:
"Studies done showed that 43% of male homosexuals admit having had sexual relations with more than 300 men; 28% with 10 or less in a life time. "
You said:
"I'm not saying homosexual behaviors have not help spread but I am saying there only one of the cause and NOT THE MAIN CAUSE! "
Because:
The widespread prevalence of sexually transmitted diseases, the practice of scarification, transfusion, and the poor state of hygiene and nutrition in Africa may all be facilitating factors in the transmission of HIV-1 in this region (Bentwich et al., 1995).
When was AIDS first detected? 1981.
A span of 14 years. A lot has happened already. It all started with transmission through sexual contact. But the transmission of this dreaded disease has become so prevalent that it was not limited to sexual contact anymore. The African people became victims of this disease, not because they live an immoral lifestyle, but because they are so poor that they cannot even have proper hygiene and nutrition.
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Last edited by Rune hunter on Fri May 18, 2007 11:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Gil-galad
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Alfred Kinsey studied the sexual behavior of humans in the early to mid 1900s. Although the data he found is somewhat questionable at times, for instance:
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| In Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, Dr. Kinsey reported that the data on the 317 children came from "9 of our adult male subjects."[11] However, Dr. John Bancroft, current Director of the Kinsey Institute, contradicted this claim. After examining the data, Dr. Bancroft indicated that the data for Table 31 came from a single adult male subject.[12] There are a number of other instances where Kinsey's published claims about numerical or factual data-claims with important implications if true-are now believed to be misleading or false.[13,14,15] |
source
This quote here brings to light how Kinsey's observations, while they may have led to more open study of human sexuality, were not always accurate studies. The last part is especially important, because I believe it refers to Kinsey's studies on homosexuality.
edit: His comment about homosexual sailors is very laughable. heh. The Village People are NOT real sailors. ;)
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Phamex
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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This guy is either a huge homophobe or just plain ignorant. Like Zaleria said, ask for sources. I imagine they're severely outdated if he has any to offer you at all. As for what Gil-galad said, I'm pretty sure you're right dude. There are 2 types of HIV responsible for the AIDS pandemic and both of them originated in primates.
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Calvin
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 12:02 am Post subject: |
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On sailors:
He is assuming that Sailors have more sex than the average person, which is contradictory logic, as heterosexual sailors out at sea would have LESS chance to be with another woman. Further, he tries to use a sailor's "reputation" to link them to a study that has nothing to do with them (to say nothing of the actual studies validity).
On Cause:
He hasn't done anything to help his argument that homosexuality is the cause of HIV. It would also be quite the feat for a virus to mutate so drastically that it went from being contagious only through sex to being transmitted by many different means in a small number of years. I think he's watched the movie Outbreak one too many times.
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1)Nearly 22% of homosexuals were molested by there parents/relatives.
2)Kids(specifically adopted kids) who live with homosexual parents are more likely to be molested than kids who live in heterosexual parents
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This didn't sit well with me--not because I don't believe the statistic, but because I believe it is very misleading. I did a little research on the subject, here is what I found:
The largest study on child sexual abuse found that 27% of women and 16% of men had reported abuse--who knows how many were actually abused. Also, the estimate of the amount of people who were abused sexually in their childhood can be as low as 20% and as high as 62% according to a study. Obviously, the percentage of gays molested according to his statistic (this is assuming his statistic is even valid) is at the very least about even with, and more likely is lower than the national average. It is possible that it is significantly lower, at that. This indicates to me that while gays may have the same problems as heterosexuals, his misleading statistic does nothing to prove that gays are somehow more morally corrupt than the rest of us. So, that disproves both of his first two points--in fact, his second point is at best false and at worse blatantly false.
The quote: ( http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/PUBLICATIONS/factsheet/fsabuse1.htm )
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| The National Resource Council estimates the percent of the U.S. population which has been sexually abused to range from a low of 20-24 percent to a high of 54-62 percent of the population; the higher estimate includes sexualized exposure without touching, such as masturbating in front of the child.1 The largest retrospective study on the prevalence of child sexual abuse found 27 percent of women and 16 percent of men reported abuse.4 |
And numbered sources from the quote:
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1. National Research Council, Understanding Child Abuse Neglect, Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1993.
4. The National Resource Center on Child Sexual Abuse, "Fact Sheet on Child Sexual Abuse," Huntsville: NRCCSA, 1994. |
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| 3)Homosexuals are responsible for the spread of AIDS(he even used the fact that the first cases of HIV were found in 5 gay guys in Miami). |
I could just as easily say that black children are the cause of the spread of AIDS (amoung children with AIDS, 57% are black), or that Hemophiliacs are the cause for the spread (50% of them are infected in the US). Would I be right? Nope, I sure wouldn't. But, I'd be using the same logic that people who say homosexuals have caused the spread of AIDS use. If you want a contradictory statistic, 50% of women in Africa are infected with AIDS, and 75% of those were from vaginal intercourse--read, not gay.
Source: http://uhavax.hartford.edu/bugl/rise.htm
I hope my research is useful to you.
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Dragonstar13
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| Shad4k wrote: |
4) Homosexuality is significantly more prevalent in people with the first name "Jay".
5) Homosexuals are 85% more likely to be abducted by aliens.
6) FACT: Homosexuals don't brush their teeth. |
I have some with someone else that I was debating with.
- Homosexuals breeding will kid will be born as a homosexual. If 2 criminals have a child, they'll be born as a criminal.
- Gay people can spread aids by shaking hands.
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Fu Su Lu
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 4:24 am Post subject: |
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Well rune Hunter, I think Yvl´s points are the most succynt and accurate.
| Phamex wrote: |
This guy is either a huge homophobe or just plain ignorant |
I would add a third option, he is a reppressed homosexual.
I think all thise 3 points are just product of racism against a collective. Man you shouldnt waste your time debating with someone wielding such poor arguments
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Rune hunter
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: |
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I kinda knew he was either ignorant or a total homophobe or actual I think he is one of those "religious" guys who believe homosexuality is some kind of disease.
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Well rune Hunter, I think Yvl´s points are the most succynt and accurate.
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How I would love to have said everything he said was crap but that would probable only embolden him to keep saying things like this.(besides doing that would only make me look like a fool). |
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Sniper_Zegai
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: |
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1)Nearly 22% of homosexuals were molested by there parents/relatives. LMFAO! what the hell is that supposed to prove? lol lets say this is an actual fact and not something your freind clearly got from a crappy source or even just made up! 78% of homosexuals do not encounter sexual abuse, this does'nt exactly stregthen his arguement at all.
2)Kids(specifically adopted kids) who live with homosexual parents are more likely to be molested than kids who live in heterosexual parents This is'nt true at all! the only factor EVER to be proven to increase the likely hood of child abduction from peadophiles is a sense of isolation or weakness. Any kid who is shy is a target for peados? you think they follow you to your house and make sure they are adopted by gays? Get your facts straight, Idiot!
3)Homosexuals are responsible for the spread of AIDS(he even used the fact that the first cases of HIV were found in 5 gay guys in Miami). It was'nt the homosexuals who CAUSED or SPREAD AIDS, in fact its well known that the insane amount of sexual partners that STRAIGHT people had in the 60's-70's sexual revolution that caused a mass spread of AIDS and made it a bigger epidemic. The simple fact is straight people get AIDS just as easily as homosexuals, if they dont use protection!
Rune I dont like to be mean but this should'nt even be a debate with the stuff your freind is coming out with. Tell him hes a moron and tell him to help himself to a book sometime and get some real facts before making stuff up or getting his info about homosexuals from his local ex-gay ministry because I dont know who else could come up with this BS!
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Fu Su Lu
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| Rune hunter wrote: |
How I would love to have said everything he said was crap but that would probable only embolden him to keep saying things like this.(besides doing that would only make me look like a fool). |
Yeah, I know, I said Yvls´s resumed my opinion ;)
I wouldnt go at all in a debate with such a closed minded person as i said previously but if feel like it, I would suggest you to use points like the ones Zegai has written.
Good luck debating with that guy, youll need it dude ;)
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