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What are we fighting for?
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Onimaru

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 8:33 pm    Post subject: What are we fighting for? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

As a franchise the focus of each game has had to distinguish itself from it's brethern in a number of ways other than the catalog of characters and the look/weapon of the Tenkai. Some major points that each game has had to change has been the "reason" the tenkai is motivated into fighting and what has motivated others to follow him. I'll list a few reasons that have been given so far and a few suggestions on future reasons for fighting.

S1

Reason To Fight: Barbossa was an opressive king, Odessa's rebels were initially fighting to dipose the current monarchy and put inplace a reign that would improve life for the common man.

Reason to Follow Hero: He was the son of a great general, and Odessa's appointed replacement.

S2

Reason to Fight: A forgine nation (highland) has invaded and intends to overthrown the republic.

Reason to Follow hero: He is the son of Genkaku. And mearly a pawn of Shu's.

S3

Reason to Fight: To put down a civil war, the grasslands fragile peace is disrupted and the "heros" are all promted to unite and stop the grasslanders from fighting among themselves.

Reason to follow Hero - Well I suppose Thomas is the Tenkai, and the only reason people sided w/ him was because he had a convienient location to set up base.

S4

Reason to Fight: To force the Kooluk's from the island nations.

Reason to follow Hero: They did something right w/ IV - the reason people follow Lazlo is because he's a BAMF, and actually a good general and pretty tough and has the rune of Punishment. That's a real first.



S5

Reason to Fight: To put a stop to a cou de'tat by the Godwins and assert the royal authority.

Reason to follow Hero: He's the Prince!

So that brings us to future reasons to fight a war, we've already covered topics like:

Rebelling against current government
Fighting an invading nation
civil-war

Another major reason to fight is religion! One that has been majorly overlooked. Men will fight and die for a religious cause, and a great story would be a character who is some sort of religious figure in a corrupt theocracy.

Thoughts? Other reasons to fight?

Harmonia and the Theocracy of Armes (isn't it armes? I may be mistaken) would be prime candidates for this story.


Last edited by Onimaru on Mon May 14, 2007 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Exile

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You've confused the neighbouring nations of Falena a little. Armes is not the Theocracy, Nagarea is.
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Onimaru

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That's right, Nagarea. Sorry - I wont bother editing it then.
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Religon in Suikoden... that would be interesting to see as a reason for war.

Perhaps something as seemingly mundane as theft could be a cause for war? There are plenty of things in Suikoden that would cause a war if stolen, most notably a true rune.
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

How about fighting for a woman? Just like 'The Illiad' of Homer. However there must be another reason for the fighting. Something deeper and disturbing.
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Prince Mirage wrote:
I can only imagine this if Nagarea were in the picture, but, a war over religion. One religion against another religion, leading to a war.


Nagarea or Harmonia definately, conflicts with other countries ensuing because of their beliefs.
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CAPTAIN PLANET

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

A racial war would be interesting to see. This was included in Suikoden V, but, it wasn't what the war's about. It would be interesting to see a large state of elves wanting to destroy humans, or something.
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Onimaru

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

luc skywalker wrote:
How about fighting for a woman? Just like 'The Illiad' of Homer. However there must be another reason for the fighting. Something deeper and disturbing.


This would be a great reason for a war, but - seeing as how our current list of characters have been pretty impartial in the "ladies" department, I dont see us getting Tenkai who'se so willing to go to war for the hand of his beloved.
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

did Suikoden do one for a nation to regain freedom after being ruled by someone else? Like a colony settles in somehwere and throws their weight around.

Because it would seem unheroic and un "Genso Suikodenish" to play the other role. to fight for conquest.
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Ninjar

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Just because it hasn't been done doesn't necessarily make it opposed to what Suikoden is. Our basis of what the game is is what they have given us. If they were to give us something new that was accepted well, that would also fit into what we thought Suikoden was. Having said that, there are nearly infinite paths that one might take. There are any number of reasons to go in and conquer a foreign nation besides blatant expansionism and genocide in mind as we saw with Luca Blight.
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Onimaru

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ninjar wrote:
There are any number of reasons to go in and conquer a foreign nation besides blatant expansionism and genocide in mind as we saw with Luca Blight.


Indeed - well, I wanted to try and narrow down those reasons for fighting. To date, the Tenkai doesn't fight because he wants to, he fights because he needs to. He fights to defend his homeland, rescue his sister, or to take the power back from a corrupt regime. And people follow him because he fights the good fight. Any way you turn it around, none of the opposing kingdoms we've conqured while playing the suikoden games have been "good" or fighting for the right reasons.

Thus the point of the thread - in order to keep the series original and fresh, what "reasons" have already been covered, and what reasons have yet to be touched.

Reasons to Fight: Love, Freedom, Money, Patriotism, and RELIGION
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

would a war based on religion really work with the suikoden world? I dont know for myself but I havent seen any real hint of a strong religious presence in the suikoden world. Unless there would be a cult or some group that worshipped a true rune of some kind. Like how the beast rune sort of reminded me of the aztecs a little bit with their sacrificing and what not.

and who is to judge that we are actually the good guys in the suikoden series. For example and Suikoden II yes Luca Blight was a bad guy and you definately had to stop him but then after that Jowy who seemed like he would make a fine leader becomes your enemy and there are things like politics and wheels set in motion that Jowy could not stop, but still we could have?

I would like to see maybe a game in the suikoden series we were are not specifically tried to be portrayed as the hero of the story but rather the antagonist the oppressor of the people or something like that or maybe thats just the evil voices talking in my head >_>
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Onimaru

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well a Theocracy is a government ruled by a religious figure. Both Harmonia and Nagera are Theocracys. And with something like a true rune at the disposal of the church, it could easily be turned into a religious artifact (the same way the Sun rune is a royal artifact of Falena).

And if the catholic church taught us anything, it's that clergymen are the original politicians. There's definatly room within a religion for political manipulation and doublecrossing. Something that a Tenkai would want to stand up against...especially if the rune of the church was associated in someway with the leader (and falls into the hands of the hero).
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Sun's Vicegerent

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's interesting how the story of Suikoden has changed over time. In actual fact, Suikoden I and Suikoden V are probably the two which stay closest to the original story itself. The one about rebellion and civil war.

It would be more interesting to see a story fuelled by both civil war and an invasion. In Suikoden V, the foreign invasion wasn't a real big deal because they were more or less allied with Godwin. It'd be interesting to see the Heroes Army take on two sides at once.
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden III did that more or less. It was civil war, provoked to disguise an invasion, which was provoked to disguise the whole destruction of a true rune bit! I really like that story when thought of in the context of the bigger picture!
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