Suikoden Ugly and Irrational Kriegspiel Objective Xperience

Suikox Home | The Speculation Shelter | Tablet of Stars | Suikoden Timeline | Suikoden Geography |Legacies


  [ View Profile | Edit Profile | Nation System | Members | Groups | Search | Register | Check PMs | Log in | FAQ ]

Peace in Toran for a long time?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Backstory, History & Plot Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Axiose

Altruistic Apparitions


Joined: 24 May 2004
Post Count: 19502

100019091 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
All it takes is an Alexander-the-Great type of leader in Toran that could lead to a massive invasion of Dunan from the Toran army


That is largly irrelevant as you could say that about nearly every nation in Suikoden.

Quote:
History has proven that peace can not last long since war provides progress and change in the world. Dunan will be the most vulnerable, as she has to share land borders with 3 nations. But the question is,who will be the aggressor-Dunan or Toran?


That again, makes little sense. As current knowledge stands, nobody can tell. There is peace between them at the moment, and not even under-lining animosity between the nations.

Either side could have a maniac in power in the future that could start a war. With present information, it's pointless to guess, as we could go on for hours about who could attack who if there was a rift between them, or a crazy leader.
_________________

[Axiose] [Fliktor]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Layfield

Last Literature D-Line


Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Post Count: 6231
Location: Saint Dragon
509933 Potch
9300 Soldiers
3525 Nation Points

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sophita wrote:
Actually, did we ever recieve any information on why Tinto dropped out of the Jowston Alliance and declared their independence?


Tinto's concerns have always been vastly different to the rest of Dunan's due to their isolated location. In my opinion, it was probably a mistake for them ever to be in the Jowstone Alliance anyway.

Simply put, Tinto could really only address their concerns best on their own. And so far have done a much better job than anyone would have predicted. With the Tinto Republic bordering both the Zexen Confederacy and the Grasslands, it's safe to the say that they've expanded quite a bit in the 15 years since Suikoden II.
_________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Weyoun

Jem'Hadar


Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Post Count: 1838
Location: Kesh
221521 Potch
100 Soldiers
5 Nation Points

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

John Layfield wrote:
Sophita wrote:
Actually, did we ever recieve any information on why Tinto dropped out of the Jowston Alliance and declared their independence?


Tinto's concerns have always been vastly different to the rest of Dunan's due to their isolated location. In my opinion, it was probably a mistake for them ever to be in the Jowstone Alliance anyway.

Simply put, Tinto could really only address their concerns best on their own. And so far have done a much better job than anyone would have predicted. With the Tinto Republic bordering both the Zexen Confederacy and the Grasslands, it's safe to the say that they've expanded quite a bit in the 15 years since Suikoden II.


I agree the Tinto Republic expanded to the point that it was interfering with the Zexen border.

And to answer Sophita's question, i think that Suikoden 3 was our offical information regarding the Tinto republic. Konami never really did tell us what happened i think.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Kobold




Joined: 20 May 2004
Post Count: 481
Location: Holy Kingdom of Harmonia
35491 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Frankly, i don't think any nation would be dumb enough to outrightly attack Toran. Border skirmishes most likely would occur here and there, but an all out war against Toran would be unlikely.

Simply for the reason that Toran is a very powerful country. From all the nations we have witnessed, i think Toran is considered a very powerful nation. Talking by the land mass is enough. Toran is a bigger nation than Dunan, and every other country besides maybe Harmonia.

Island Nations wouldn't have the capacit to invade Toran. And as for Dunan, possibly in the future, their attacks here and there like what Tinto and Southwindow used to do might return. But probably not a large scale war.

But yet on the other hand, if after Lepand dies, and a new president suceeds him, and this particular president isn't as peace loving as Lepant, we might see Toran initiating the attacks. I think this is a more possible thing to occur than other countries attacking Toran.
_________________
Kobolds are great!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Aurelien

20.01.08


Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Post Count: 7736
Location: Jowston Hill
1567728 Potch
0 Soldiers
157 Nation Points

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sophita wrote:
Actually, did we ever recieve any information on why Tinto dropped out of the Jowston Alliance and declared their independence?

If I'm not mistaken, it was the case because Riou decided to leave Jowston/Dunan after the Dunan Unification War. Gustav felt that Riou was the only person who could've led the nation fairly (or in other words, he didn't really believe the ability of the other city-state leaders). The fact that he didn't have the best relationship with Teresa and her becoming the popular choice as the president of Dunan also played a part into the decision to separate itself from Dunan.

But in the end, it doesn't mean that they are on bad terms. Tinto separated themselves from Dunan with Dunan's blessing. So there should be no bad feelings between the two at the moment.
_________________



~City-States of Jowston and Tinto Republic~
06.06.2004 - 20.01.2008


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Beethoven4567

Sacred Guards


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Post Count: 158
Location: Crystal Valley
39804 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kobold wrote:
Frankly, i don't think any nation would be dumb enough to outrightly attack Toran. Border skirmishes most likely would occur here and there, but an all out war against Toran would be unlikely.

Simply for the reason that Toran is a very powerful country. From all the nations we have witnessed, i think Toran is considered a very powerful nation. Talking by the land mass is enough. Toran is a bigger nation than Dunan, and every other country besides maybe Harmonia.

Island Nations wouldn't have the capacit to invade Toran. And as for Dunan, possibly in the future, their attacks here and there like what Tinto and Southwindow used to do might return. But probably not a large scale war.

But yet on the other hand, if after Lepand dies, and a new president suceeds him, and this particular president isn't as peace loving as Lepant, we might see Toran initiating the attacks. I think this is a more possible thing to occur than other countries attacking Toran.


That may be true, but can you guys tell me how united the citizens of Toran are? From what we know in Suikoden 1, the various races in Toran such as the humans, elves, kobolds, and dwarves live separately from each other and socialization between the races are kept to a minimum. So, the question is, will the elves, kobolds, and dwarves be willing to be ruled by humans forever? In a multi-racial and multi-cultural society, should the non-human races want more political rights? I really hope that one day in a future Suikoden game or manga, there is a dwarf, kobold or elf being the President of the Toran Republic. Otherwise, we might see a civil war in Toran, with the non-human races wanting more rights and democracy.

Would you guys want to see a kobold as President of Toran?
_________________
"In war there is no substitute for victory"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Aurelien

20.01.08


Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Post Count: 7736
Location: Jowston Hill
1567728 Potch
0 Soldiers
157 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
That may be true, but can you guys tell me how united the citizens of Toran are? From what we know in Suikoden 1, the various races in Toran such as the humans, elves, kobolds, and dwarves live separately from each other and socialization between the races are kept to a minimum.

I think they were quite united. The fact that Kuromimi and Kirkis were one of the 108 SoDs in Gate Rune Wars, and the fact that they became the leaders of their respective races (Kobolds and Elves), there should be no problem to make the races work with each other. The dwarves were practically not that much different compared to the elves and kobolds after Gate Rune War because they've seen that Tir and co. were indeed good people that also helped out the dwarves (by showing that their Burning Mirror was stolen, how it was going to be used to destroy places, etc).

Quote:
So, the question is, will the elves, kobolds, and dwarves be willing to be ruled by humans forever?

If I'm not mistaken, they weren't really ruled by humans. They have their own villages with their own leaders. So it was more like having their own prerogative though still under Toran Republic's banner.

Quote:
In a multi-racial and multi-cultural society, should the non-human races want more political rights?

I doubt that they wanted this at all. There is just no hint whatsoever that pointed out to them having interest in going to politics.

Quote:
Would you guys want to see a kobold as President of Toran?

Not really. And how could you expect a kobold to be the president through democracy? Kobolds are probably outnumbered by humans around 10 to 1 at the least. So it's definitely going to be hard to gain the humans' votes.
_________________



~City-States of Jowston and Tinto Republic~
06.06.2004 - 20.01.2008


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Beethoven4567

Sacred Guards


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Post Count: 158
Location: Crystal Valley
39804 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Black Pesmerga, so you're implying that the non-human races in Toran have no desire and interest to be the Toran President?

If that's the case, then that's their choice. However, i doubt that they would be satisfied with just autonomy. Sometime in the future, i predict a civil war will break out in Toran with the non-human races demanding more political rights such as wanting someone from their respective races to become a minister or a high-ranking government official working in Gregminster.

Besides, don't you think that non- human races in the Suiko world are treated unfairly? It is time for the Toran Republic to appoint a non-human individual to a high-ranking position in the administration. I hope that in the future, humans and non-humans are treated equally in Toran. Equality is for all in a merit-based system, where discrimination will never and should not happen.
_________________
"In war there is no substitute for victory"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Aurelien

20.01.08


Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Post Count: 7736
Location: Jowston Hill
1567728 Potch
0 Soldiers
157 Nation Points

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Black Pesmerga, so you're implying that the non-human races in Toran have no desire and interest to be the Toran President?

Yes.

Quote:
However, i doubt that they would be satisfied with just autonomy

Based on ... ?

Quote:
don't you think that non- human races in the Suiko world are treated unfairly?

Generally speaking, not. In some rare cases, yes, but generally not because they don't really interact that much with humans in the first place anyway.

Quote:
I hope that in the future, humans and non-humans are treated equally in Toran. Equality is for all in a merit-based system, where discrimination will never and should not happen.

You sound like a real politician, dude. =D
_________________



~City-States of Jowston and Tinto Republic~
06.06.2004 - 20.01.2008


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kobold




Joined: 20 May 2004
Post Count: 481
Location: Holy Kingdom of Harmonia
35491 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In a Nation like Toran, multi racialism is no longer much of a problem. Indeed during the scarlet moon period, the races were oppressed mainly by Kwanda Rossman. However, when the war was over and Toran repuplic established, i'm pretty sure that the races all live happily now. An example we can see is the fact that Kobolds now actually head all the way to Gregminster. Gregminster is very far away from the Toran kobold village, and previously, i'm sure the kobolds only stayed in their own village.

Kirkis and Kuromimi as the respective race heads have a pretty much healthy relationship with the humans. Really, i don't think internal racial strifes in Toran will be apparent anytime soon. At least not till some new lousy leader takes over.

And logically, the idea of a kobold president is not possible. As much as i'd like to see that though. I love kobolds... But anyway, kobolds themselves don't usually have much ambitions. It's sort of in their nature. They're warriors, and i don't really think any of the kobolds would want to lead the whole Toran. It's just logically impossible.

Similarly for elves. All these sub-human races mainly care only for their own village. They wouldn't be interested in domination. Dwarves would be the same. They're researchers and engineers. Not dominators.

For all the countries we know of, i'm pretty sure only in Harmonia is there racial oppression. From what we know, Kobolds are treated like slaves there. Other than Harmonia, Toran and Dunan all in all seem to have already cleared their racial dispute problems after the respective games...
_________________
Kobolds are great!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Beethoven4567

Sacred Guards


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Post Count: 158
Location: Crystal Valley
39804 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kobold, do you mean to say that the non-human races in Toran care only about their races and the villages they govern?

If that's the case, then this shows that they are not patriotic enough. Anyway there are nations in our world that shares Toran's political system. For example:

1. In America, only Whites can be President

2. In Malaysia, only Malays/Muslims can be Prime Minister

I guess nations with multi-racial backgrounds don't necessarily allow all races equal opportunities to be head of state, due to historical reasons or maintaning social harmony :wink:

I hope that in the future, humans and non-humans in Toran establish closer bonds and befriends each other more. I long for the day when all races in Toran look at a each other as equals and not as 'the others'.

Maybe one day, all races in Toran would consider themselves more like Toranites than humans, kobolds or elves. Usually, a country that is united leads to a strong, powerful, prosperous and stable nation.

Anyway, Kobold, i don't mean that the non-human races should dominate the country, but rather, contribute more. The idea here is contribution, and not domination. If they don't want to be President, then they could always apply to be one of the 5 Generals in Toran.
_________________
"In war there is no substitute for victory"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Deleted User 1




Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Post Count: 0

0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well the Toran goverment is strong in the Suikoden 2 because of the leadership of Lepant.But it could easily fall into the wrong persons hand and become a corrupt country once again.It only takes one bad seed to corrupt the whole political system.If the Suikoden series continues it's a fairly good possiblity Toran could be involved in a negative aspect in the view of a hero.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Noot

Faithers of the Defend


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Post Count: 3748
Location: The Holy Kingdom of Harmonia
186551 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. In America, only Whites can be President

:shock: Umm, I didn't see that written in the Constitution. Would you mind showing me where you got that from??? Just because there has only been whites as President in America so far doesn't mean that there won't be someone of a different ethnic background there in the future. To imply otherwise goes against one of the very core principles America was founded on: "All men are created equal."

Toran is still strong because of the size of its army. Plus, the corruption that PO'd everyone to begin with was wiped out with the new officers in place. While Barbarossa was busy mourning his wife, Windy was able to use the army to her own wicked ends. And the officers had agendas of their own. So basically, with the people satisfied, the Toran Republic is pretty strong. The Imperial army consisted of over 80,000 troops roughly, but it's hard to say how many remain. Even so, when added to the 30,000-35,000 members of the Liberation Army, they still form a formidable force. The only strife will come from outside nations, not from within. There seems to be peace between them and the Dunan Republic so I don't think there will be any problems for quite a while.
_________________
~~Harmonian Tenhei Star~~

It's hard to bargle naudle zauss with all these marbles in my mouth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger
Beethoven4567

Sacred Guards


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Post Count: 158
Location: Crystal Valley
39804 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If the non-human races in Toran have no interest in becoming President or other high-ranking minister due to the simple fact that they are disinterested in politics and better suited to be warriors and serving in the Toran Army as soldiers, then they could always try to make someone from their kind one of the Five Generals of the entire Toran Army.

From what we know in Suiko 1, all Generals serving in the then Imperial Army were humans, such as Kwanda Rosman, Sonya Schulen, Millich Oppenheimer, Teo McDohl and Kasim Hazil. I would like to see someone from the elves, kobolds, and dwarves becoming one of the Five Generals in the Toran Army.

Anyway, can you guys tell me what are the differences between the kobolds in Toran and the kobolds in Dunan in terms of personality and roles? Which ones are more influential and intelligent?
_________________
"In war there is no substitute for victory"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Aurelien

20.01.08


Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Post Count: 7736
Location: Jowston Hill
1567728 Potch
0 Soldiers
157 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
If the non-human races in Toran have no interest in becoming President or other high-ranking minister due to the simple fact that they are disinterested in politics and better suited to be warriors and serving in the Toran Army as soldiers, then they could always try to make someone from their kind one of the Five Generals of the entire Toran Army.

Why is it necessary for you to have them to be one of the Five or Six Great Generals anyway? Just because they stay in their respective villages doesn't mean that they are not patriotic. A good warrior could serve as a warrior in Kobold's Village just as good as they serve in Gregminster.

And if you want say (for example) Rubi as Great General from the Elves, wouldn't you consider that as a bit cruel? You want one elf to live in a city full of humans? Despite the elf being treated equally, it's still not the same as their own village that is full of elves. Equal treatment doesn't have to be in a form of doing things together.

Quote:
Anyway, can you guys tell me what are the differences between the kobolds in Toran and the kobolds in Dunan in terms of personality and roles? Which ones are more influential and intelligent?

Nah, no difference. Same kobolds different place. That's it.
_________________



~City-States of Jowston and Tinto Republic~
06.06.2004 - 20.01.2008


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Backstory, History & Plot Discussion All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
suikox.com by: Vextor


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
  Username:    Password:      Remember me