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| Is Suikoden II better than Final Fantasy VII? |
| Yes |
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80% |
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| No |
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19% |
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| Total Votes : 63 |
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Son Morckxoff
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 Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 10:51 am Post subject: |
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FF 7 is the first real rpg I ever played and it's still my favorite game ever.
It also was the last decent Final Fantasy, this series as suffered a sharp decline in quallity after this game. Well...that's my point of view anyway.
This is the game that got me intrested in rpg's, showed me that video-games could also have rich plots and most of all (or should I say worst of all?) that a main character CAN die. Really, I was shocked after you-know-what happened.
Almost cried.
Anyway, although Suikoden II is a close seccond, FF7 will probably always be my #1 game. I'm sure everyone has this one "old" game that they feel nostalgic about.
FF7 is not that old but you know what I mean...
Anyway, the Final Fantasy series is dead to me now.
FF7 might be my favorite individual game, but Suikoden is my favorite game-series.
Well...rpg-wise anyway... |
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Zaleria
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Yup, Final Fantasy VII is indeed overrated. I think Suikoden II is much much better. The only problem is Final Fantasy is already famous when Suikoden's star is just starting to rise. Might be because the name Final Fantasy is more catchy than the word suikoden. But the world is now aware of the Suikoden Game! Soon forums like this might be as numerous as the final fantsy forums that can be seen on the web today!
-Heh, I remember when gamefaqs made the poll pitting suikoden II against Final Fantasy VII to determine what game is better. The first vote went to Suikoden II so it registered as:
Suikoden II:100%
Final Fantasy VII:0%
Hehehe...
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gari
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Considering that gamefaqs even made a poll for suikoden 2 vs. ff7 means that suikoden 2 is at least popular. Not that they would ever win the vote because suikoden is a cult game, it still shows that people appreaciate this game. Myself, i think suikoden 2 is the best game ever made, but ff7 comes close behind it. Except for graphics, suiko 2 surpasses ff7 in every way: story, feeling, character development. What i also like about suikoden is that it has created an own world, with lots of persons and places that remain familiair.
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Son Morckxoff
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 11:20 am Post subject: |
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It also seems that some people are put off by the fact that you have to recruit 108 characters.
I for one don't see a problem with that, since I easilly get bored with characters. And in Suikodens you have so many to choose from its impossible for me to get bored! :D
A lot of people are also very superficial and will only buy games with good graphics. Needles to say that FF has the advantage here... |
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ed_20
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say that Final Fantasy 7 is an overrated game and I wouldn't say that it's the best rpg game ever. It's a great rpg game to play with and I enjoyed playing it than the other Final fantasy games and for me it is also the hardest final Fantasy to beat. It took me one year to beat it. I was really young that time and I am new to Rpg games so that means Final fantasy 7 is the first rpg I ever played.
But I will always choose Suikoden 2 over Final Fantasy 7 no matter what But Final Fantasy 7 will be always be one of my top list. :) |
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Blade
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:46 am Post subject: |
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I would say that FFVII is the most significant RPG ever made, but its far from the best ever, heck, its not even the best in its own series. That goes to VI. Suikoden is hands-down the greatest RPG ever made, at least in my opinion. If I to choose between the Suikoden series and the Final Fantast series, I would choose Suikoden's 4 games over FF's 10 because truthfully 8, 10, and 10-2 are horrible games so it levels the field.
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St. Ajora
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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How could I not see this thread before. I realize that this is like, a year old, but I'm so tired of FF7 being picked on because of its huge fanbase and feel it always needs to be defended.
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| If a storyline is being compared to Suikoden II, I think S2 would annhilate Final Fantasy VII. Mainly because in the story of FFVII, the plot can be so confusing when they discuss materia, sectors, lifestream, and the planet. This is part of a story is all so cliche compared to suikoden II. |
I bet this thread is filled with lots of replies like these. This is a Suikoden forum, after all, and I'm sure most people would say Suikoden is better. Opinion over fact maybe, but fact over opinion. What is wrong with a "consuming" plot? To many of us, FF7 wasn't confusing at all. It was detailed, it was tragic, it was dark. What's wrong with that? To my knowledge, none of this is really cliche. If you have the gall to call FF7 "cliche" without taking time to properly analyze it, then you should step up and call Suikoden cliche as well. None of these storylines are incredibly original. FF7's little secrets all tie together neatly when you actually take time to understand everything, before simply dismissing everything as wrongfully cliche. I'm sure little boys getting lost in wars and becoming heros aren't terribly original either.
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| Almost 85 % (guess) of the Rpg games out there are fixed on saving the world from a creepy guy dressed in black |
Well that's a far out guess, and probably, an incredibly wrong one as well. Can you list off the hundreds of RPG's that have been made in the past 20 years and actually give me a better estimate? Or are you implying that every RPG to date is a knock off of FF7? Where's your evidence for this? Or are you just lining up that estimate to coincide with your conclusion that Suikoden is better?
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| Another argument is playability. Yes, FFVII has the chocobo breeding, racing, impossible foes (emerald & omega); but SuikodeII has a cooking contests, private investigators, fishing, and sidequests. Another thing i would also like to bring up is that one suikoden game has more characters in one game than Final Fantasy has in all of their series. Is FFVII still a great game? Of course. But do i think it's better than Suikoden II? Sorry |
What is your point here? That Suikoden is better than FF7 because it has fishing? That it's a better game because it has more characters? That's great that you think that and all, but to use that arguement with "FF7 is over rated" is a tad on the weak side.
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| I think the storyline of the Suikoden series has been nothing short of fantastic thus far, and Suikoden II is one that especially sticks out in my mind. Not only does it boast a much better villain (c'mon, Luca, a TRUE psycho who had his reasons for wanting to destroy the world vs. Sephiroth who's history is nothing but a haze that you can't make sense of even in the end?), |
See, here we go again. Are we arguing complexity over simplicity? Sephiroth sucked because we missed out on the details for whatever reason? Come on guys, if you're going to offer your opinion and then state that one is better than the other, give real reasons.
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| He could wipe out the entire planet, and I'd still thank him for killing Aeris |
Totally agreed.
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| Seriously, it just has too many stupid fanboys/girls that consider it the greatest game of all time, and to me that is sad |
I find it sad that someone is saying FF7 is over rated in a Suikoden forum. I mean, you're just doing the exact same thing. What's wrong with loving FF7? What's wrong with loving Suikoden? A lot of you seem to consider the Suikoden series the *best ev0r* and that's just me noticing the pot calling the kettle black. It doesn't even depend on the size of a fanbase- if you're condemning people for loving their favorite game, aren't you condemning yourself? Leave those people alone to feel that it's the greatest game of all time. I'm sure you wouldn't like others pointing out to you that you sound the exact same with your Suikoden.
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| Cloud and Sephiroth are in my top 10 of most hated video game chracters of all time simply because they're both so remarkably cliched and have no mind of their own. |
As with most other RPG characters, I guess they're not alone :P
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| Anyway, I do hope I've made my point on this. I'm trying not to sound like a completely biased idiot here, and hopefully I did OK |
Wow! Good speech Saben, you brought up some very very interesting points. Nothing short of amazing.
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| And every part of the story line, but that which revolves around Cloud, has no background |
That's wrong, everything is explained about Cloud in the game. Why do people miss so much of it?
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| Wrong. If you seriously pay close attention, you'll notice, he wasn't all that great, and was merely a puppet to other people. |
I notice that a lot of people hate Sephiroth just because he was a pawn. So what? That makes his story all the more tragic. If not tragic, interesting. He was a vessel for Jenova, who was the real villain. Sephiroth spent his time in the Northern Crater the whole game. Again I say, so what? Does he have to build a tower and pass judgement in the form of destruction? Does he have to build an army and wipe out a nation? Does he have to become a crazed(oops, done), lunatic (oh wait, he was that too) uber strong prince of a man who has no compassion or remorse whatsoever? So what if he wasn't there in person? The fact of the matter is, Sephiroth was the puppet who was the mastermind behind all of that. That was his story. When people say that he was the coolest villain, maybe they acknowledge all of that. Sephiroth the character utilized his power differently than other rpg villains. Does that make him any less badass?
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| I mean...damn....many games are overrated and still amazing. Chrono Trigger for example. Exceptional. But it's overrated. |
I also don't see how Chrono Trigger is over rated. When two games such as FF7 and Chrono Trigger have come from an era that they did, 10 years down the road, people seem to say "well it isn't anything special" because we've been given a lot more RPG's to compare it to. Chrono Trigger especially, deserved its legacy because it was one of the most (if not, most) powerful game of its time. We've had a lot of time to grow and expand upon this sort of template for several years, and it seems like these older games are becoming obsolete just because more games have been put out there. Chrono Trigger isn't over rated, it's popular. And rightly so.
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Suiko 2 destroys FF7 I got 4 reasons why
1.-Suikoden2's story is easy to understand
FF7's story gets to confusing around disc 2
2.-Suikoden2 has more unforgettable characters Barrets pretty cool though Tifa is pretty cute
3.-Sepriouth(I don't think I spelled it right)thinks hes bad Luca Blight knows hes bad.
4.-Riou isn't a butt head like Cloud Strife
BOTTOM LINE-Suikoden2 ROCKS |
Guh, comments like this are just as inane and annoying as FF7's "fanboy" comments. Just choose to disregard everything that FF7 is or was, and then make a conclusion that Suikoden 2 is tha best!!1. If you don't like FF7, fine, but at least attempt to compare the two in a fair light.
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| FFVII was definately a great game and I do not think it is overrated. I think people want to say it is overrated because they feel other games are better and resent the fact that so many people love the game. It is my second favorite game ever. It has great qualities and great replay value. I don't like how so many people don't like it just to go against the grain. It has earned the respect it has gained and should definately be in any RPGer's top 20 favorites even if there are games they like better. You have to be trying to not like it in order to dislike it. |
Totally agreed!
I find it sad that some people feel the need to disrupt the legacy that FF7 has created. There's a reason it became so popular, and if Final Fantasy's later games were all so "horrible" as some people proclaim, then I don't know why they're the most favoured games to be purchased. It seems like some people on the net seek to justify why their favorite video games are kept out of the spotlight that is entirely focused on the Final Fantasy series, and most Square Enix games in general. Overhype? I don't think so. Good quality games maybe, that Suikoden can easily rival. Case in point, Final Fantasy 7 has remained on top for the past few years for whatever reason, and I don't think it's coasting by on hype alone. |
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Tonberry
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hooray! St. Ajora, you rock.
I also don't like how Final Fantasy IX (my favorite game) has been classified as "childish" just due to graphics. People all the time claim that they don't care about a game's graphics and that's why they play old games like FFIV, but when I ask them about FFIX, they tell me the characters look childish. This makes no sense. It makes for a very unhappy tonberry. |
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St. Ajora
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Final Fantasy 9 is a beautiful game. Personally, it is my least favorite of the series (or of what FF's I've played, anyway) but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate its sense of nostalgia and looming sense of despair. FF9 may have looked kiddy, but it contained a very deep and powerful message, that many people dismissed on account of how the game began and character interaction. There were emotions and storyline in that game that were heartbreaking, thought provoking and very traditional. |
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Sai Fujiwara
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Yeesh, that was a long speech there, St. Ajora. Not bad, though.
I personally DO think that Final Fantasy VII is over-rated. Not because it is bad, or because it isn't ONE OF the best games ever made...
But, mostly because it isn't THE BEST game to ever have been made.
Granted, we're all going on our own opinons of what is right and wrong, but I don't think that we're somehow "bad people" for saying that Final Fantasy VII is over-rated. It's just our opinion.
I would give Final Fantasy VII a 9.5 out of 10. But, not a 10. There are way too many people who give stupid speeches, just like the one you quoted, justifying their love for Final Fantasy VII.
OMG SEFIROTH IS SO BADA$$! THERE4 HE IZ THE COOLEST AND PHINAL PHANTASY VII PWNZ!
You can see that kinda' garbage on GameFaqs if you look hard enough. Quoting somoene on a Suikoden forum saying the opposite thing in the same manner doesn't really prove or disporove your point.
| St. Ajora wrote: |
| An un-named poster wrote: |
| Seriously, it just has too many stupid fanboys/girls that consider it the greatest game of all time, and to me that is sad. |
I find it sad that someone is saying FF7 is over rated in a Suikoden forum. I mean, you're just doing the exact same thing. What's wrong with loving FF7? What's wrong with loving Suikoden? A lot of you seem to consider the Suikoden series the *best ev0r* and that's just me noticing the pot calling the kettle black. It doesn't even depend on the size of a fanbase- if you're condemning people for loving their favorite game, aren't you condemning yourself? Leave those people alone to feel that it's the greatest game of all time. I'm sure you wouldn't like others pointing out to you that you sound the exact same with your Suikoden. |
What's sad about stating opinions? I think you both make a pretty valid point. As I've said before, I do think that Final Fantasy VII is one of the best RPGs out there. I think it stands to reason that it IS over-rated, because the person you quoted brings up an insanely valid point. I guess it's ok for you to think it's sad for them to feel this way, but they have a right to, and shouldn't really be ridiculed for feeling so.
No one has said that Final Fantasy fans are "bad people." And anyone who HAS said that, is just blowing steam out of their rear. There's nothing wrong with sticking up for the game you like. I'm not saying that Final Fantasy fans are "bad" or "stupid" and I don't think you should find Suikoden fans the same way, either.
I guess the thing is, most of us Suikoden fans are just tired of hearing all the Final Fantasy VII fans making silly comments about how awesome Sephiroth is, or how cool Cloud was... Or even how large Tifa's... Well, never mind about that last one. :P Thing is, many of us just have a desire to say ours is better. It's no worse than Final Fantasy fans saying that theirs is better. Free speech, I say.
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St. Ajora
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| I personally DO think that Final Fantasy VII is over-rated. Not because it is bad, or because it isn't ONE OF the best games ever made... |
To be honest, I think it is a little bit over rated too. Not to the extremes that many people are stating, but my main nitpick with FF7 is the complete lack of interesting character interaction and development that is ignored, besides Cloud, Tifa, Seph and to an extent, Vincent.
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| I would give Final Fantasy VII a 9.5 out of 10. But, not a 10. |
I don't think any game deserves a 10. Did you see at gamespot, Chrono Cross was given a 10? Dubya tee eff, dude.
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| What's sad about stating opinions? I think you both make a pretty valid point |
I have stated in my post that there is nothing wrong with opinion, and it shouldn't be taken as fact. What I can't stand, however, is people attacking FF7 BECAUSE of opinion, and calling it the worst game ever, because of opinion. I think that most of us here are mature enough to say "I dislike FF7" and simultaneously say "it's not the worst game ever to exist. We all have a bias, but that's stating something is bad or wrong because of what we feel is pushing it...
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| I guess it's ok for you to think it's sad for them to feel this way, but they have a right to, and shouldn't really be ridiculed for feeling so |
I'm glad you said that, since I believe a couple people in this thread poked fun at "ff7 fanboys", especially with the AOL-speak. Everyone is entitled to what they feel, but it takes an open mind to dislike something and not condemn it at the same time.
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| I'm not saying that Final Fantasy fans are "bad" or "stupid" and I don't think you should find Suikoden fans the same way, either. |
I have stated no such thing. That would be hypocrisy. I have stated, in my quote, that certain Suikoden fans are doing the exact same thing that FF7 fans are doing- defending and loving their favorite game. So why must one group ridicule the other when they're behaving the exact same way? (maybe one acts more intelligently than the other, of course ;))
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| It's no worse than Final Fantasy fans saying that theirs is better. Free speech, I say. |
This is exactly what I have said in my previous point. Playing devil's advocate as usual, I was. |
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Sai Fujiwara
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| St. Ajora wrote: |
| Myself wrote: |
| I'm not saying that Final Fantasy fans are "bad" or "stupid" and I don't think you should find Suikoden fans the same way, either. |
I have stated no such thing. That would be hypocrisy. |
You know what... You're right. Sorry about making it sound like you did. I just wanted to make sure that the argument doesn't head in that direction.
Anyway, it sounds like you mostly agree with what I'm saying. It's all good. :D
Heh, and for the record, I totally don't think that Chrono Cross deserves a 10. I gave Chrono Trigger a 9.9, but I don't think I even gave Chrono Cross an 8... I don't really remember... Anyway, it's a better game, once you get the new game +, but it still doesn't compare to the original (Chrono Trigger.)
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Tonberry
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:57 am Post subject: |
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A main problem here is that many are jealous of FFVII's popularity. "My favorite game is not FFVII and everyone else should give [person's favorite game here] the respect it deserves." Since they do not like it as much, they put it down.
Sai does have a good point though about the right of opinion. I just think that many many people here have rather weak reasons for disliking the game. |
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Milan Fiori
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:30 am Post subject: |
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Since I like both games all I have to say is, I get extremely bored when I replay Final Fnatasy VII until I get to just about the end when I have full control and access to all the mini-games but even then I can only spend a few hours playing those before I get bored. On the other hand I only get bored within the first hour or two of Suikoden because there's alot more things and combinations I can do. Unlike Final Fantasy where characters are basically the same skill wise because of Materia customization(Which I know some people like) Suikoden gives me a larger choice of characters with different abilities and strengths and weaknesses.(I try to use different teams in each play through) I actually find FFVII's mini-games the most boring out of the entire series (With 10 having the hardest and 9's card game being the most fun.) Where most of Suikoden II's I find entertaining. Fishing can get boring after awhile but really I could spend hours Karen Dancing and Cliff Climbing.
And the reason people miss some of plot in Final Fantasy VII is because alot of stuff is left as side-secrets that have time limits, or alittle harder to find, like the whole Cloud and Zack thing. It took me several play throughs and then a deep discussion to finally understand everything. All in all the only reason I like Suikoden II better is because it holds my attention more than FFVII.
Anyways instead of arguing about this everyone should go and play Lufia II! Because that game blows both of these games out of the water. And Lufia III needs to be made! I would love see this series done with all the advancements we have now.
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St. Ajora
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Sai Fujiwara wrote: |
You know what... You're right. Sorry about making it sound like you did. I just wanted to make sure that the argument doesn't head in that direction.
Anyway, it sounds like you mostly agree with what I'm saying. It's all good. :D
Heh, and for the record, I totally don't think that Chrono Cross deserves a 10. I gave Chrono Trigger a 9.9, but I don't think I even gave Chrono Cross an 8... I don't really remember... Anyway, it's a better game, once you get the new game +, but it still doesn't compare to the original (Chrono Trigger.) |
Hehe that's okay, I'm not the best person to try and explain my thoughts, as jumbled as they are XD. On Chrono Cross yeah man, I don't see how that, or any game can get a 10. And of all games, CC...I mean it wasn't a bad game at all (I love it to death) but there are so many things lacking...
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| Anyways instead of arguing about this everyone should go and play Lufia II! Because that game blows both of these games out of the water. And Lufia III needs to be made! |
Lufia 2 is GREAT!! And I believe that a Lufia 3 was already made...
To try and steer back on topic, yeah I'll just repeat, nothing's wrong with opinion :D It just shouldn't be used to argue with what really is and isn't. And I know, we all do it to a point (it's very hard not to) but if we recognize our bias, then we're on our way to trying to make it less noticable and influential in a decision like this. |
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