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Sacrifices And True Runes
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:08 pm    Post subject: Sacrifices And True Runes Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm sure a lot of you have noticed how most (maybe all) of the True Runes, require some sort of sacrifice or have a drawback in order to function fully. I'm trying to understand why and how this happens, these are a few that I've originally got in my head. Does anyone here think that there are True Runes that don't require these sacrifices, I can understand situations like the Elemental True Runes, those are fairly tough to figure out, espeically with a lack of backstory. By the way, the "Neclord's Invicibilty" thread gave me the idea for this topic.

Soul Eater - Absorbs the souls of the bearer's loved ones to acquire power.

Rune of Punishment - Absorbs the soul and memories of the bearer itself.

Rune of Begining - Seems to require the bearers of each half to fight each other until one is finally declared the winner to unite.

Rune of Change (Sindar) - Requires that the bearer and company stay on the move, and are never allowed to settle in one place.

Blue Moon Rune - Sacrifices are needed so that curses can be placed, although the sacrifices aren't compulsory to the use of the rune.

Those are just some I thought of, does this apply to True Runes in general, or only a few unlucky ones?


Last edited by Ujitsuna on Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Milan Fiori

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Each rune definitely seems to impose a payment or gaes on people in exchange for their power. The Beast Rune needs blood sacrifices, the Sun Rune causes insanity, the Night Rune makes you listen to it's arrogant babble.

But there are other Runes that so far we know don't impose any penalty for their gift. The Gate Rune sides and the Dragon runes are examples along with the Elemental Runes. So maybe it's just the 'more' powerful runes that impose things on their bearers for their power.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well the Gate Rune as we've seen it hasn't been as it should be, it could be completely different as one rune.
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It seems to be a thematic device beginning to overwhelm the nature of the Runes themselves as the series goes on.

Perhaps there is a True Rune of Plot Devices causing all this? :P
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Wataru

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Dragon Rune has a drawback as well, though. If the bearer dies, all the dragons go, too. That's a pretty big price to pay for the power. The elemental Runes also may have a penatly where they assert their ego a little more powerfully (see the essay on Runes on the main page). I assert that Luc's mad quest in S3 was the result of the Wind Rune using him. Wind is traditionally a chaotic force and wouldn't like A) being bonded to one guy against its will for eternity and B) a world of absolute order. I suspect it showed Luc the Silent World to scare him into acting. It made him think it was imminent and inevitable and pushed him to act as it wanted him to. It knew Luc would die in the process and it would be freed from him as a result. That's what I think, at least.
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blueflame

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In my opinion, immortality is a large consequence of having a rune so you can't say that some runes don't have consequences. Imagine, everyone dying and getting old whereas you stay the same. The experience of death among your friends is painful.

Theres a saying as well that absolute power corrupts absolutely. In short, the more power one has the more one gets corrupted. Imagine, you have the power of a God (True Rune). Its like with one single snap of yours, you can kill a large amount of people already and it will only take a small movement of yours. What if anger blinded you causing to kill both the guilty and innocent? Won't that affect you for the rest of your life?

Another thing, imagine Harmonia, and people like Windy chasing after your rune. You'd be the cause of a lot of people's death, both the people who defend you and people who are just ordered.

When you've put up with all this, of course, you'd want to give up your rune. Sadly, you can't! It would affect you big time if that rune went to the wrong hands. In conclusion, you can't say that a true rune has no consequences.
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Ikano

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd actually go a little beyond what Wataru said and say that all 5 of the elemental runes would end up like the Wind rune in that I don't think any of the elements want to stay "static" so to speak forever you know...?

In nature Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, Lightning are ever changing elements...through the seasons, through time etc. I'd think each of those elemental runes...given enough time with being on only one host They'd all eventually end up like the Wind rune to Luc...the question is how long can each of those True Runes tolerate it...? Maybe it's related to how active the natural elements are in nature? (like...wind has to stay in constant motion otherwise it's no longer wind)

But that's just my theory.......
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Rezard




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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Rather then sacrifices, I see those draw back as curses the runes carry.

All true rune supposedly have curses, if we don't know some true rune's curses, it is just that it wasn't introduced to us yet. At least that's what I think, considering how many true runes have a curse.

I think the fire rune's losing control is also a curse of the true fire rune, you will destroy your enemies, but also your friends.

The gate rune's curse will probably only be better explained when we learn more about Windy and Leeknaat. I speculate that this rune's curse is double personality, since we never saw Windy and Leeknaat in the same place and time and it would be a better explanation on why Windy/Leeknaat donĀ“t grow old, while Riou/Jowy do.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Also, living forever could be a curse to some and not to others, some many not want to live forever.
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blueflame

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Rezard, I have a feeling you're right. I think the gate rune splits a person into two. I just thought of something. I saw in one of the topics that says the 27 True Runes being separated from Order and Chaos. What if each rune has a Chaos and Order side. I just thought about it. If you separate let's say the True Fire Rune. Would you get an evil and good side? Evil needs good and good needs evil. Yin and Yang right? It probably makes those runes a little stable if the good and evil are balanced. I don't know just a speculation.
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Admiral Ackbar

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Rune of Punishment, to be more specific, feeds off the misery and suffering of it's host/bearer.

And yeah, the Sun Rune causes insanity. Can't overlook that. Arshetat went batshit real fast.

As for the Beast Rune, we know it can require blood sacrifices to become powerful, but that could simply be the process by which one uses it's power remotely. No one has been known to actually bear the Beast Rune on their body, so any drawbacks are unknown.
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Rune of Corruption

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Coot wrote:
The Rune of Punishment, to be more specific, feeds off the misery and suffering of it's host/bearer.

And yeah, the Sun Rune causes insanity. Can't overlook that. Arshetat went batshit real fast.

As for the Beast Rune, we know it can require blood sacrifices to become powerful, but that could simply be the process by which one uses it's power remotely. No one has been known to actually bear the Beast Rune on their body, so any drawbacks are unknown.


The same could be said about the Blue Moon Rune as well. I've never read that the Rune needs those sacrifices in order to be used, but it does turns its bearer into bloodthirsty murderer until he or she is able to control the rune. Remember that Neclord stole the rune so it never recognized him as its bearer. Still, I never read about Sierra using the rune when she had neither.

I can explain some of what you asked Rezard. The Bright Shield and Black Sword Runes are not true runes. They are representatives of the beginning or how the Rune of the Beginning choses to represent the Beginning of the Suikoden world with the battle between the Sword and Shield. Hence the name Bright Shield and Black Sword. When one overcomes the other the Rune of Beginning manifests itself to the bearer of the winning rune.


I think that True Fire Rune going out of control was simply the nature of fire itself. IF left to itself it will consume all regardless of alignment. The Fire and Rage runes both had spells that damaged both enemy and ally alike and so a true rune would do this at a greater force than a regular rune. Agelessness is a curse within itself which why the Flame Champion gave up the rune in the first place.The Gate Rune doesn't seem to have a drawback. This could be because it is not a whole true rune.

I would like to know the drawbacks to the Circle, Night, Sovereign, and Beast Runes if they have them.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The drawback of the Circle Rune is stagnation.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Sovereign Rune's is obviously that you can't use magic, but that for some people can be an advantage as well as a disadvantage.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I dunno, being able to turn into a giant three headed hydra in return for not using magic is a pretty good trade off. Especially considering the spells that the thing uses.

Since I'm guessing Ernst's rune is shoot off of the Beast Rune and not the real thing, we can probably infer if someone was to bear the actual Beast Rune, it'd probably cause the bearer to change form. Which could be a blessing or a curse depending on your view point.

Rune of Change and the Circle Rune are polar opposites. Rune of Change forces the bearer to be ever changing or some such, while the Circle Rune causes stagnation. Both of these 'curses' are assumed to be wide spread, With Sindar being forced to travel the world, and Harmonia being Stagnated. Though, how Harmonia is stagnated we haven't really seen. Probably in Tradition and motives.

As for the Bright Shield and Black Sword, it seems that they are physically draining if used too much. Jowy says something along those lines as well at the very end of the game. And in reality Jowy and Riou are extremely selfish in the end. The Rune of the Beginning has the power to end all wars. But they passed on that power, a power that could bring everlasting peace to the world, for their own selfish gains! Damn them!
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