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Introducing Bounty Hunting
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thank you Hayashi.

As for you Blas, wait and see I guess. I would assume it supercedes and effects a whole phase, but since it's for stun and not kill like I had originally and unreasonably assumed, I guess any detail about that is left to the administration to enlighten us with. I think they want some anonymity about it to encourage people to try it out to see.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well if it's classed as an adventure (which it is, isn't it?), it's at the same time as those.
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Well if it's classed as an adventure (which it is, isn't it?), it's at the same time as those.

Yes, yes it is. There's inherently some degree of discretion until the system is tried out so more will become clear with time.
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Arenegeth




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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Step 2: Arenegeth see's the generous bounty and takes the bait! He contacts the Bounty poster from Tinto (Me!)


Is this gonna happen privately and not posted in the public thread? So people will not know I have expressed interest for a target in order to avoid competing or cooperating?

What I’m I gonna contact you about? I mean the price of the bounty was in the post do you encourage mercenaries to barter for a raise in the bounty (though I personally don’t like this)? Or we should just express our interest? But what different does that make I suppose the reward money will go on the Mercenary(s) that get the target a Nation doesn’t even need to know who’s on it right? From the things said after your post if this is going to be conduced as mercenary business then wouldn’t be best if it was kept private for strategic reasons?

Quote:
Step 3: When it comes time to send your plans to Vextor send it to him like this... "Adventure- Pursue Bounty Sal Lamel in Tinto"


So does that mean that I have to have some sort of approval from the Nation that posted the bounty or I can even do that without anyone knowing who I’m going after in a Phase?

Quote:
Is this more clear?


Yes but I still don’t really get what will give a chance to win and what not, because if it’s only duel stats all I need to do to know the outcome is to run our units through the Duel Calculator… And since this is an action against a person not a location which I may bump to several different people or monsters and stuff I will only have to face one target and those who may guard them…

Their intelligence is a relevant thing a person like Kage could be tough to beat not due to he’s stats but because he is a Ninja and belongs to a Nation, however every target has it’s weakness and Kage’s seem to be money, which brings me to another thing…

Can results of a bounty turn up with the NPC leaving the Nation or party it belongs to for the Nation that hired the hitman? If the stories are going to be colorful and not just cases of “You there I’m here to collect your bounty!” “You won’t” they fight, one wins one loses, then such probabilities seem plausible…

Another example would be if the NPC left with the mercenary instead, for example I’m send to take bounty on a woman but we fall in love and at the end I don’t take the bounty the party the NPC belongs to loses him/her but since I don’t really complete the bounty I get no money from the Nation that put it on…

I’m sure I complicate matters with these comments…

I’m just trying to find a way to judge what targets to take on and what not… Should I avoid any Duel statistically superior units then?

And what if they are three of us how will duel stats affect the situation there? I’m sure that three people of level 60 could take on a person of level 100 if they ganged up on him at once, but that is in concept of plot one by one with duels for example we all lose…

Quote:
If you'd really like to know if you'll be successful or not, try and fail or try and succeed.


That is Phase spend as a lab rat… And it may be phases before I can accurately judge what target I can and I can’t take on… The problem I see with that is that a few mercenaries may end up wasting Phases and at the same time Nations not getting their targets since mercenaries fail on the job…

Besides many NPC’s are powerful and hardly manageable by any non admin mercs…

Quote:
I suppose you could put up a counter bounty, yes, but it would get awfully complicated that way. It's also been said that it's discouraged to put a bounty on players, yet not disallowed. I trust in the community at large to be respectful of one another and not abuse my system.


The only reason a Nation would put a bounty on me in my example is because they want to apply extra protection to their NPC unit in case I manage to sneak through and assault him/her not because they have anything against me…

But an easy way for this problem to disappear is to make some sort of bounty hunters code which doesn’t allow any hunters to hunt each other so in that sense no one can put a bounty on somebody who hunts that Phase…

Quote:
As far as compensation goes, the nation can distribute money as it sees fit. Even split is the easiest way I can think of but if the nation wants to give more to one than by all means.


You do understand what that technically means don’t you?

If the Nation wants to in can compensate us like this:

Arengeth 1000000

Mercenary A 23

Mercenary B 64

And that is after the mercenaries wasted their Phase I think that the given amount even if it is different for each of the mercs in the group should be agreed upon before we head on (and made know between us mercs or some people may feel cheated)…

I feel that many things are theoretical here and I need to actually try to find out as you said (is not like I had anything better to do so with me personally is OK) however the matter of whether this should be addressed through a thread or privately and what is better should be made clear now…
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Is this gonna happen privately and not posted in the public thread? So people will not know I have expressed interest for a target in order to avoid competing or cooperating?

What I’m I gonna contact you about? I mean the price of the bounty was in the post do you encourage mercenaries to barter for a raise in the bounty (though I personally don’t like this)? Or we should just express our interest? But what different does that make I suppose the reward money will go on the Mercenary(s) that get the target a Nation doesn’t even need to know who’s on it right? From the things said after your post if this is going to be conduced as mercenary business then wouldn’t be best if it was kept private for strategic reasons?


You don't have to contact the poster but going by what I played in Final Fantasy 12, which is somewhat responsible for this idea, the Hunter contacts the Poster in order to finalize. So if perhaps another has also said he wants in on it, but seperate, I can let you know that someone else is competing for it. It may be beneficial for you to contact the poster.

Quote:
So does that mean that I have to have some sort of approval from the Nation that posted the bounty or I can even do that without anyone knowing who I’m going after in a Phase?


If anonymity is wanted, you can do that. You just have to declare you intent to Vextor. I imagine it will come up as an adventure in the DOI's.

Quote:
Yes but I still don’t really get what will give a chance to win and what not, because if it’s only duel stats all I need to do to know the outcome is to run our units through the Duel Calculator… And since this is an action against a person not a location which I may bump to several different people or monsters and stuff I will only have to face one target and those who may guard them…

Their intelligence is a relevant thing a person like Kage could be tough to beat not due to he’s stats but because he is a Ninja and belongs to a Nation, however every target has it’s weakness and Kage’s seem to be money, which brings me to another thing…

Can results of a bounty turn up with the NPC leaving the Nation or party it belongs to for the Nation that hired the hitman? If the stories are going to be colorful and not just cases of “You there I’m here to collect your bounty!” “You won’t” they fight, one wins one loses, then such probabilities seem plausible…

Another example would be if the NPC left with the mercenary instead, for example I’m send to take bounty on a woman but we fall in love and at the end I don’t take the bounty the party the NPC belongs to loses him/her but since I don’t really complete the bounty I get no money from the Nation that put it on…

I’m sure I complicate matters with these comments…

I’m just trying to find a way to judge what targets to take on and what not… Should I avoid any Duel statistically superior units then?

And what if they are three of us how will duel stats affect the situation there? I’m sure that three people of level 60 could take on a person of level 100 if they ganged up on him at once, but that is in concept of plot one by one with duels for example we all lose…

Consider the Bounty Hunts like Adventures. You cannot garauntee anything as the Hunter, however your employer may specify certain stipulations. If you can lead the NPC into Defecting, 40 Mil. If you incapacitate him for a phase, 2 mil, and another 2 for however many more you do so. It's up to the stipulations of the Poster. You can negotiate perhaps through contact.

Quote:
You do understand what that technically means don’t you?

If the Nation wants to in can compensate us like this:

Arengeth 1000000

Mercenary A 23

Mercenary B 64

And that is after the mercenaries wasted their Phase I think that the given amount even if it is different for each of the mercs in the group should be agreed upon before we head on (and made know between us mercs or some people may feel cheated)…

That could happen. Most Bounty Hunters would probably make sure to iron this out before hand, which is advisable. Lets say Schlomo and Billy went on a Bounty Hunt with Vextor and expected to be paid the same rate, as if they had the same impact on the result. That's why we're letting this area be somewhat free form. It's the employer-employee relationship that gets shattered if the employee gets shafted.
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Elc

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Come to think of it, this idea reminds me of the Hunter's Guild from the Arc the Lad games (II and III, specifically) which I always thought was cool. In fact, those who have played the series will know that Elc was part of the guild at one point. Man... the possibilities this feature could have...

Good luck, mercs. I hope this is as enjoyable for you as it was for me. (in the games, of course.)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Elc wrote:
Come to think of it, this idea reminds me of the Hunter's Guild from the Arc the Lad games (II and III, specifically) which I always thought was cool. In fact, those who have played the series will know that Elc was part of the guild at one point. Man... the possibilities this feature could have...

Good luck, mercs. I hope this is as enjoyable for you as it was for me. (in the games, of course.)



Yeah, Loved the guild missions in Arc The Lad II and III. This seems like it'll add a lot of fun to the path of a merc. and it'll help certain nations with people they'd like not to see ^^
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Decado

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
What I’m I gonna contact you about? I mean the price of the bounty was in the post do you encourage mercenaries to barter for a raise in the bounty (though I personally don’t like this)? Or we should just express our interest? But what different does that make I suppose the reward money will go on the Mercenary(s) that get the target a Nation doesn’t even need to know who’s on it right? From the things said after your post if this is going to be conduced as mercenary business then wouldn’t be best if it was kept private for strategic reasons?

You don't have to contact the poster but going by what I played in Final Fantasy 12, which is somewhat responsible for this idea, the Hunter contacts the Poster in order to finalize. So if perhaps another has also said he wants in on it, but seperate, I can let you know that someone else is competing for it. It may be beneficial for you to contact the poster.


I see this in a simpler way. Nations post their bounties, perhaps in a sub-forum designated for this purpose. The bounties are available for all mercs to try to claim. There shouldn't need to be any finalisation between the mercs and the nation as who takes out the mark is not really any of the nations concern, they are only interested in results.

If 10 mercs all try for the same bounty then whoever is successful claims the cash - it isn't for the nation to decide who, how and when. That's for the mercs to figure out on their own.

I guess I'm seeing this in a more wild Western style rather than FFXII - the bounty hunters go into the sheriffs office and see the 'WANTED!!!" posters of the various villians of the time. They then choose a bounty and go after it - if they are successful they claim the reward from the authorities, if they fail they get nothing. Perhaps along the way they may encounter other problems or scenarios or maybe they will need to compete with other bounty hunters along the way but that is for them to deal with.

At no point does the bounty hunter need form an agreement or seek approval from the paying nation. The only role a nation has to play is that they put up the bounty and pay the reward when the bounty is claimed.
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Arenegeth




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
You don't have to contact the poster but going by what I played in Final Fantasy 12, which is somewhat responsible for this idea, the Hunter contacts the Poster in order to finalize. So if perhaps another has also said he wants in on it, but seperate, I can let you know that someone else is competing for it. It may be beneficial for you to contact the poster.


That is up to your discretion however? Though I can’t see why you wouldn’t tell me if other people were interested since you want your job done, and two or three mercs united are better than apart (so we may end up fighting each other and the hit gets away)…

Quote:
If anonymity is wanted, you can do that. You just have to declare you intent to Vextor. I imagine it will come up as an adventure in the DOI's.


Though possible that would be discouraged (unless you’re admin of course) since it may make people of a very different gap level compete which is not fair…

Discouraged in the sense that it wouldn’t be optimal for all people involved…

That would be all for now…

I hope the Nation’s don’t overwhelm us with a giant hit list…

Oh wait one final thing Nations can make a bounty on one NPC a Phase each Nation right?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It seems that people are expecting millions of potch to be put up for bounties - I don't think this is a realistic expectation.

Unless the negation of an NPC for a phase or two provides some added benefits then this amount of potch seems an excessive expectation. In order for this idea to work properly the potential return needs to outweigh the investment made by the nations otherwise they simply won't participate.

I know that I would baulk at the idea of paying millions of potch out to possibly negate a single NPC for a phase. Added to that is the fact that I would also need to hold the bounty in reserve to pay the mercenary who may or may not be successful and in doing so perhaps run the risk of losing a battle because I didn't hire enough soldiers for the phase.
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Exile

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
and two or three mercs united are better than apart


You're supposed to be mercenaries, not a nation, I don't see why you want to work together anyway, you left nations to do things on your own and be in charge of your own fate didn't you? I can see why teaming up on an adventure is advantageous to you all and actually encourages team work between you but perhaps bounty hunting should get back to the idea that you're in it for yourselves and not as a team. Just my opinion on the matter.

I think the price paid will obviously vary but needs to be based on what you would expect a mercenary to be paid for regular battle, if the mercenary can make more money by just hiring himself out as a soldier and a general then what's the point taking on bounty hunting for them really. It will be necessary for a nation to offer a respectable amount for the jobs they post if you consider this the case.

Actually the price will have to be very good if you consider the mercenary won't get a penny if they fail, it would be a rather high risk for them and as such be necessary for there to be a high reward or there's not enough incentive to do it. Negating a good NPC has the potential to swing an entire battle so I'd expect good prices to be offered if I was a mercenary.
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

However, if a nation sets the bounty too high, then the newbie mercenaries will see the price as their eyes light up, charge blindly at the unit, get knocked out in one round, and hand them a victory.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yvl wrote:
However, if a nation sets the bounty too high, then the newbie mercenaries will see the price as their eyes light up, charge blindly at the unit, get knocked out in one round, and hand them a victory.


You say it as if it'll happen every 5 minutes, not that many new members join the mercenaries and actually do anything after that, if it does ever happen, then it will, but it wont be happening left right and center.

Also, about the bounties themselves, what should happen is that nations post them, then mercenaries decide to take them on or not, it's the most simple and effective way to get the jobs going. Being a mercenary myself, I'd prefer to have a selection if I wanted to do bounty work instead of waiting to be contacted by a nation or contacting nations myself.
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Parallax

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The selection of work outside of nations hiring mercs for battle is certainly a good aspect to this whole thing. I have noticed that several mercenaries don't even get hired regularly, if at all. Most nations would much rather get victories for their own units than hire anything but the most powerful mercenaries.

Giving less formidable mercenaries a chance to get a couple of victories and raise their appeal so they get hired more often is probably the best aspect of this 'bounty hunting' feature. I would guess that most mercs probably aren't capable of taking down a nation's NPC, but there are plenty of relatively weak NPCs that exist in Rogue Factions and other places that could meet their end! Or at least incapacitation. :)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's a cool idea, that's for sure! ^^
Nice work guys!
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