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Thomas Tenkai star yet not leader?
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Rune of Corruption

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Personality has nothing to do with bearing true runes. Sierra and Neclord are like night and day in personality but Neclord stole the rune with no trouble at all. Also Sierra took it back with no trouble at all. At the most true runes have preferred individuals as their bearer whether they be good, evil, great warrior, poor slob, or fearful coward. There is no proof that Ted's grandfather was a great warrior, but he still bore the Soul Eater Rune. Likewise there is no proof that Ted was to be a great warrior but the rune was passed to him and he kept it for hundreds of years until it was passed to Tir who was probably going to follow in his father's foot steps.

To be a tenkai doesn't mean you have to be a warrior. A tenkai is one the brings together the hearts of diverse people to accomplish a specific goal.
No one in Suikoden 3 does this but Thomas. Hugo hates the "iron heads" because of the burning of his village, Chris stereotypes the Grasslanders, and Geddoe sort of works on the outside of all the issues. These types of characteristics are seen in all other characters from the area as well. The only one who brings all these characters together despite the happenings was Thomas and that alone makes him a Tenkai.
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Ryusei

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

See now, being a warrior isn't really the basis of becoming a true rune bearer. What, how did we know what Steele, Neclord, Sierra, and the others were when they still didn't have their true runes? They could be just random people, insignificant to the world.

As Rune of Corruption said, how do we know Ted or his grandpa was a great warrior when he hasn't acquired the Soul Eater yet? Ted wasn't even a warrior in the first place. He was just forced to acquire the rune. It was just ill fate that put them into a position of acquiring a true rune. See, not all of the true rune bearers had your so called "position" of getting a true rune. They were just normal people who were lucky (or even unlucky) enough to bear a true rune, nothing more.
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FabledHero




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Rune of Corruption wrote:
Personality has nothing to do with bearing true runes.
It may not have anything to do with ones ability to bear a true rune, HOWEVER it does have to do with their odds of being in the right place at the right time and or wrong place at the wrong time. I think we can agree a guy who never leaves his room will probabaly not likely be put into a situation in which he would acquire a true rune. This is what im trying to explain.

The odds in acquiring a true rune are heavily in favor of guys like hugo, gheddoe and chris because they actively pursue things, fight battles, explore, they are more likely to come across a true rune or be put into a situation to acquire one. Thomas on the other hand pretty much just stays in his castle, unless a true rune just falls out of the sky onto his door step he just will not obtain one.

So yes personality does factor into ones odds of acquiring a true rune. I mean if Neclord was not such a scum bag, I doubt he would have stolen A true rune.

I think talking about how Thomas should have been the flame champion is kinda like fan fiction, I know you guys love Thomas but I am here to explain why he was not the flame champion. If they had given Thomas true rune in Suikoden III it would quite frankly be an anomoly, A pure stroke of luck. In the long run, guys like Gheddo, Chris and Hugo would be the ones who would acquire it, so the most likely scenario was played out in the game. I hope what I am trying to convey is coming across to you guys, I hope you guys respond to my post.

Ryusei wrote:
FabledHero wrote:
Thomas wasn't really in a position to becoming a rune holder in the first place.

And so did others who held true runes. Whoever imagined a normal Karayan boy like Hugo would gain possession of a true rune? None of them were really in a position to becoming a true rune bearer when they still were just some normal person living in the earth. It wasn't in their intention to bear a true rune. They were fated to become one. Bottom line: nobody was ever in a position to be a true rune bearer. It was their destiny to become one, and they weren't raised to become true rune bearers.
If you mean destinyas in the simple history that all of the events they had in life, eventually led them to the true rune then yea, it was. However, if you mean destiny as in it was predetermined they would become a true rune bearer, i don't buy that for one second.

Millions of small things in life shape, form and mold what we are to become, along with a couple of MAJOR decisions along the way. Those are what create our destiny, we create our destiny. Destiny to me is just the end to the means. Tir was destined to acquire the soul eater based on all of the other things in his life, firstly being born as Teo's son. Then from there on out, harvesting his charisma, honing his skills, befriending Ted etc. Everything added up to this, so this is what happened.

About Hugo, the fact is he is the son of a Chief, he is held to high expecatations. He had motivoe to acquire a true rune, as he wanted to be a hero, and he wanted to protect his village. As we saw, he eventually teamed up with Gheddo, Chris etc, and had a chance to become the flame champion. If Hugo for some reason was a coward or some other random thing he might have had his priorities different, and wouldn't have had the opportunity.

Unless of course... you believe the true runes have the power to physically can control peopole to do their bidding, and take away there choice and free will. That however, wouldn't make much sense to me. It also wouldn't be a very fun thing to believe in, that the character actually didn't have character lol, that the things they did were simply some rune controlling their actions for entertainment.
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Rune of Corruption

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="FabledHero"]
Rune of Corruption wrote:
Personality has nothing to do with bearing true runes.
It may not have anything to do with
FabledHero wrote:
ones ability to bear a true rune, HOWEVER it does have to do with their odds of being in the right place at the right time and or wrong place at the wrong time. I think we can agree a guy who never leaves his room will probabaly not likely be put into a situation in which he
would acquire a true rune. This is what im trying to explain.



This true depending on the rune. The Punishment Rune bounces from one victim to the next. Graham Cray's was probably out playing one day and bam! The Punishment Rune has embedded itself on his left hand. Who is to say that a true rune won't pop up in someone's home and is born by a bed ridden person? That is high unlikely though like you said.


FabledHero wrote:

The odds in acquiring a true rune are heavily in favor of guys like hugo, gheddoe and chris because they actively pursue things, fight battles, explore, they are more likely to come across a true rune or be put into a situation to acquire one. Thomas on the other hand pretty much just stays in his castle, unless a true rune just falls out of the sky onto his door step he just will not obtain one.


Like I said earlier this is depending on the true rune, but I don't disagree with you.

FabledHero wrote:

So yes personality does factor into ones odds of acquiring a true rune. I mean if Neclord was not such a scum bag, I doubt he would have stolen A true rune.


If the person is ambitious enough then yes in that sense personality does play a role in getting a true rune.

FabledHero wrote:

I think talking about how Thomas should have been the flame champion is kinda like fan fiction, I know you guys love Thomas but I am here to explain why he was not the flame champion. If they had given Thomas true rune in Suikoden III it would quite frankly be an anomoly, A pure stroke of luck. In the long run, guys like Gheddo, Chris and Hugo would be the ones who would acquire it, so the most likely scenario was played out in the game. I hope what I am trying to convey is coming across to you guys, I hope you guys respond to my post.


I do understand what you are saying. Hugo had the most reason to try and become the next Flame Champion, but the deciding factor was with Sana. Sana revealed the location of rune to Hugo which allowed him to take the rune. The Elemental Runes aren't all that conditional as the other true runes are. What I am trying to say is that if Sana trusted Thomas she would have revealed the location to him as well. Because these runes aren't as finicky with their bearers as others it would be much of a challenge for him to bear the rune. I am not saying that Thomas should have been the Flame Champion.

FabledHero wrote:

if you mean destinyas in the simple history that all of the events they had in life, eventually led them to the true rune then yea, it was. However, if you mean destiny as in it was predetermined they would become a true rune bearer, i don't buy that for one second.


Millions of small things in life shape, form and mold what we are to become, along with a couple of MAJOR decisions along the way. Those are what create our destiny, we create our destiny. Destiny to me is just the end to the means. Tir was destined to acquire the soul eater based on all of the other things in his life, firstly being born as Teo's son. Then from there on out, harvesting his charisma, honing his skills, befriending Ted etc. Everything added up to this, so this is what happened.


What does being trained as a warrior, being a specific persons son, or charisma have to do with being destined to bear a true rune? It is not as simple as destined to bear the rune. That could be the case if the rune was family heirloom or something. Tir didn't search for this rune he got it through an unfortunate event. Same with Ted. The only X-factor in their lives was Windy's thirst for the rune. It could be said that Riou was destined to find the Bright Shield Rune because his adoptive father bore it before him. However, for most true rune bearers it was circumstance that forced them to become bearers. Hugo on the other hand was more as you say. He had qualities to him that made him more likely to become the flame champion, but that doesn't mean he was destined to be the flame champion.

FabledHero wrote:

About Hugo, the fact is he is the son of a Chief, he is held to high expecatations. He had motivoe to acquire a true rune, as he wanted to be a hero, and he wanted to protect his village. As we saw, he eventually teamed up with Gheddo, Chris etc, and had a chance to become the flame champion. If Hugo for some reason was a coward or some other random thing he might have had his priorities different, and wouldn't have had the opportunity.


It is not quite as black and white as you make it seem. Destiny to me is something that can be shaped for you if you let it be. Take Luc and Sasarai for instance. It was decided long before their creation that the True Wind and True Earth runes needed bearers. So thirty years before Suikoden III they were cloned from Hikusaak in order for them to bear those runes respectively. That was their intended function, however both have carved out a new nitch for themselves.Hugo becoming the flame champion is quite as you say to me. I believe Hugo was most like the previous Flame Champion. He is a native of Grasslands, he is young and personable boy, he is brave, and he has a kind heart. Because he is from Grasslands it is natural for him to want to protect it. THomas on the other hand wanted to bring together the people of Grasslands, Zexen, and frankly Harmonia in order for them all to live together peacefully. So no he would not have needed the rune as it doesn't go along with his goals.

FabledHero wrote:

Unless of course... you believe the true runes have the power to physically can control peopole to do their bidding, and take away there choice and free will. That however, wouldn't make much sense to me. It also wouldn't be a very fun thing to believe in, that the character actually didn't have character lol, that the things they did were simply some rune controlling their actions for entertainment.


Some runes can influence people to do things that they would not normally do. The Blue Moon Rune drives its bearer to kill until they are able to control the rune. The Sun Rune plays on a person's dark emotions and make them go mad.

I
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FabledHero




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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

First of all, I think we've reached sort of an understanding about what we were both saying, I think you did a good job of dissecting what i wrote, and making some good points.

Rune of Corruption wrote:


Some runes can influence people to do things that they would not normally do. The Blue Moon Rune drives its bearer to kill until they are able to control the rune. The Sun Rune plays on a person's dark emotions and make them go mad.



I agree, but what I meant was, runes controlling people to do things, before they were even attached. As in they're like God. That's the only way people wouldn't have a choice, is if the rune could physically control their mind before the rune is even attached. I agree some runes once attached are like, drugs in a way, they alter you in ways.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think they should of done with Thomas that they did with Tomo in Suikoden 2. They should of made the person you chosse to be the Flame Champion the Tenkai star then put Thomas in whatever spot was missing.
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Song Jiang

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i wished that thomas got the true fire rune and ruled the castle(cant spell the name) forever. the rune would give him greater power at protecting his home. and it would make him a greater general or just a more feared general.
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