Suikoden Unique and Inspirational Kibbutz Objective Xperience

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Suikoden II- Clive's side quest
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Horned Loa

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

@ Black Pesmerga: Well it seems Harukaze has completed it. I do believe I've beaten Sasarai once before though although I'll get the quote this time. The few battles you do fight Luca Blight in the game he is undefeatable. The first one in the Mercenary Fortress, he just needs to touch the Mercenary Fortress to win. The second one is when he chases the Muse citizens whilst you try your best from the Matilda region, with no possible chance of success. The final one is the one where as soon as he gets hit, he smacks everyone for a single sword and teleports away (makes me think he is more than human because of this), but the one where you try and save Ridley would be a perfect chance to beat him. The goal of that battle is to TOUCH Ridley, so as long as he doesn't get killed (put Huan along with Chaco in the most south-eastern unit). I've had Ridley annihilate 5 enemy units BEFORE my forces even arrived (including Seed and Jowy) and hurt Rowd for one sword. I healed and killed his forces some more but there was a chance of beating Luca's unit. As long as none of your units touch Ridley you have time to defeat Luca. I'll try it again when I replay and post his defeat speech.

@ Harukaze: Well perfection is defined as flawless and a death is considered a flaw but I guess in the gaming world there are LEVELS of perfection. Collecting all items and completing the side-quests could be considered perfect (however I still believe you need to beat Rowd and get Genshu to level 99 to achieve perfection in that sense). Dying in this sense can be used as a tactic though.
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Justice Johnny

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Black Fang wrote:
If you manage to beat Rowd, finish the Clive subquest and get Riou to level 99 than my hats off to you as that is just brilliant.

I did not bother to kick Rowd's ass cause I find it pointless, and everyone "perfect" games is pretty much subjective, so I can just agree to disagree to your notion that beating Rowd would make a perfect game.

Black Fang wrote:
However, I'm curious.....to get to level 99, Riou must be at a MAXIMUM of level 49 (unless you want to go the hard route). That would mean that you'd have to RUN from all the Greenhill and Rockaxe liberation fights (or have Riou killed off) as well as die when fighting Lucia, the Bone Dragon, Gorudo and Lucia yet again.

At hindsight, I thought getting Riou to Level 99 would be hard, but I realized it is a piece of cake. Once again, special thanks to the handy Fire Lizard Rune. *hint hint*

I did not level Riou up to Level 49 cause that would be risky. I got him to about Level 34, just so I could recruit Wakaba, and get LC Chan at Level 39. I think you have to get to Level 99 before recruiting Pesmerga, because he joined in my party at Level 50 when Riou was Level 34. The earliest you can get to Level 99 is after the liberation of Greenhill. Get the Fortune Rune from the Guardian Diety, and battle 6 Eye Flowers outside of Greenhill alone. That should be enough to get Riou to Level 99. Of course, some people would think that a perfect game would have Nanami at Level 99, but I did not bother with that. Maybe on my next gameplay, but it is just so hard. Maybe I should test the Eye Flowers and how much experience they give at specific levels. All I know is that they boost a Level 34 character with a Fortune Rune to Level 99.

So you do not have to die in the Gorudo and Lucia pt. 2 boss fights. In fact, I loved kicking Gorudo's butt with a Level 99 Riou and a Level 99 Jowy.

Or you could just rush through the game without saving or recruiting any playable character, get to Level 99, die and start from scratch, although I think doing that would not help for Hoi either, since he starts 10 levels below Riou. In any case, that last suggestion is a crazy joke, so do not take it seriously.
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Black Fang, with all due respect to Harukaze, his memory wasn't really clear. So I can't take his words as the truth yet. No offense to Harukaze, but it's just that from what I know, Luca's unit was programmed to be undefeatable. So it should be impossible for us to defeat his unit no matter what we do despite we have unlimited time on Ridley's mission as long as we don't save him.

But having said that, I could be wrong too because I don't think anyone has ever claimed to be able to defeat Luca's unit during the save-Ridley mission either.
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Horned Loa

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

@ Black Pesmerga: Well first and foremost, I do not know where you got this idea that Luca's unit was programmed to be undefeatable? Did you actually open up the code of the game and check it out or know of a RELIABLE source that did so? We all know that Luca was undefeatable in some missions, but I don't believe he was programmed to be undefeatable. If you believe it is THAT hard to beat him then I'll try using an emulator as I can use the save and load state trick to beat him with ease (I only use the emulator for screenshots and figuring out little bugs and secrets :P).

We know that there are four battles that feature Luca's unit so I'll go through all of them and explain what the chances of his unit being defeated are.

Battle #2 at the Mercenary Fort: Luca barges in here on the last turn and due to just ONE of those units having to move onto the fort for the win, there really is no way you can beat him here.

Battle #5 at the Muse-Matilda Border: Well the elimination of the city-state units usually happens within one or two turns and there is not much you can do with a single unit.

Battle #8 at Radat (saving Ridley): This is the ONLY battle where I believe it is possible to defeat Luca Blight as your forces are spread EVENLY against his and the only thing that ends this battle is Ridley's unit dying or touching another one of your units. If you manage to heal Ridley's unit with Huan and possibly with Riou and his Bright Shield Rune without touching him, you HAVE A SHOT at defeating Luca's unit as the trigger to end the battle will not activate until either Ridley is killed or until you touch him. If you keep him alive and well away from all the other forces (enemy and yours), there is a good chance of defeating Luca here, although you must get past his 18 Attack and 17 Defense first.

Battle #9 at North Window: This is the fight in which you spring a trap to surround Luca and it is only THIS battle where I believe Luca is undefeatable as he does a manouver that teleports him away from the battle and deals one damage to each of your units.

The battle one that gives you a shot at defeating Luca's unit is the "saving Ridley" mission near Radat which also features Sasarai, Jowy, Seed and Rowd and I've managed to defeat all four of them before. I'll run that battle through an emulator and use the load and save state trick to beat all of the special units and get their defeat speeches. I believe the Leon defeat speech has already been post somewhere on the internet.

On a side note, this is going off topic now and a Luca Blight thread would be a little more appropriate for a conversation such as this, so this will be my last post in here regarding him or his unit.

@ highwind: Wow! You seem to have figured out a quick way to boost all characters to level 99 EARLY on in the game when it can be far more useful. I've had the level 99 glitch happen to me before, which means that Hoi, Pesmerga, Anita, Mazus, L.C. Chan and Georg join you automatically at level 99 (Anita came in useful when fighting Luca) but that still leaves out Genshu!!! I'll definitely try your trick and I'm assuming you use the Fire Lizard Rune to knock Riou out when needed.
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Black Fang wrote:
Well first and foremost, I do not know where you got this idea that Luca's unit was programmed to be undefeatable? Did you actually open up the code of the game and check it out or know of a RELIABLE source that did so?

If my memory serves me correctly, it was SARSadmin who mentioned about Luca's unit being programmed to be undefeatable. And again, if I'm not mistaken, his source was one of those Japanese publications thingy (an interview with one the staffs or something?). I don't really remember the exact thing, but I think it's roughly like that.
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Drizzt

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
(I only use the emulator for screenshots and figuring out little bugs and secrets ).
Sure sure Black Fang haha. Me too......actually I haven't got a clue how to get an emulator working for Suikoden 2, but in regards to other games of that matter... :wink:

I suppose the only best way the verify all the talk about defeating Luca would be if codes existed for Gameshark that made your army invincible and see if he could be defeated, but no such codes exist. If you spent hours trying to beat him to no avail, you would have your answer. It would be cool if there was a rare time you could legitimately defeat Luca and get a 'super special rare Suikoden character defeat speech' sort of thing. Oh and yes I just wanted to add this part about Luca and it will be the first and last of it from me.

Oh and when you think about it there is no legitimate way to actually achieve 100% Suikoden 2 completion fail that of a gameshark/codebreaker that could give you infinite time, well one that sets your clock to 00:00 or something. Then you could do every possible sidequest and max out all your characters...whoa to seriously do this it would easily make the game over 100 hours long. I am not one to care that much about finishing a game this way, but that would be the only way for 100%
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I definately don't think you could claim perfection on a game if you use cheat codes, sorry.

And no, BP, I don't take offense at all, since I may well be entirely wrong. It's just been too long. After BF's post, I could be thinking of the fight where he teleports away after being hit, for all I know. I probably posted too quickly the first time when I made the claim; but BF mentioned it, and it sounded familiar, so I thought I remembered that. All I know for certain is that I played that mission obsessively for -some- specific goal in mind, and I don't think I would have done so if it was as simple as saving Ridley.

But yes, if this is going to go any further, I second the notion of creating a new topic with regards to defeating Luca.
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Horned Loa

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

@ Black Pesmerga: Well SARS certainly is a trusted source since most of his material comes from official Konami material. I'll try it out using the save and load state trick and if his unit is in fact unbeatable then nothing lost asides from a bunch of Highland units in a battle. :mrgreen: If I DO manage to defeat him or Sasarai I'll get a screenshot of the image and the quote and post it up here. Nothing wrong with trying right? :wink: DAMMIT! You made me post about Luca again.

@ Traz: Hahaha, busted. :P Well I had to get special plug-ins and I'll search around the internet for the site where you can download the ones you need. I have them on my computer so if I cannot find the site I might just send you the files via MSN or AIM or something. It took me a while before I could get Suikoden II to work though.

Well there are different levels of perfection. I've read this PERFECT finish Final Fantasy VII guide somewhere and the lower levels of perfection required all characters at level 99 and all skills and Materia mastered as well as all side-quests finished. Well altogether there was about five or six different levels of PERFECTION. The final level I believe required everything from all the previous ones including EACH stat for each character being maxed out and MAXING OUT ALL THE ITEMS, WEAPONS AND ARMOR at 99 (even those you have to steal or gain in some painful ways, INCLUDING 99 MASTER MAGIC/SUMMON/COMMAND MATERIA) and all the special items which you can only get a certain amount of. People actually DID THAT!!! That is the level of insanity I hope I never reach but I do guess those that do complete a game to that extent can say that they have completed the game FULLY and there really is nothing more for them to do.

@ Harukaze: I agree here that cheat codes kind of kill that whole perfect finish because.....you didn't finish it. Not on your own....not the way it was intended to be finished.
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Justice Johnny

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've defeated Sasarai once. Yay for me! Ridley kicked his ass with a Critical.

Okay, so I tried fighting the 6 Eye Flowers at Level 31 WITHOUT the Fortune Rune, and I gained 58200 Experience points. Riou has 951 exp, so adding that 58200, the total is about 59151 Exp, boosting Riou to Level 90. I thought it was really enough to get Riou to Level 99, but I guess I was wrong. I do not know how it will work for people below Level 31 though. I am going to test this a bit more. If a character can get to Level 99 below Level 31 by fighting 6 Eye Flowers, then there might be a chance to get Nanami to Level 99 after all. But if there isn't, I guess I can do with the Level 90. What's the highest experience gain without the Fortune Rune? The highest I know of is 60000, which can be achieved by defeating the 6 Highland soldiers at L'Renouille alone.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In regards to the cheat-perfection thing, all I meant was that their is no actually possible way for anyone to seriously finish the game 100%. No arguments there because it cannot be done. Now back to the actual topic, I did not find it too hard to complete Clive's side quest legitimately, though it was not really worth it to do more than once unless you forgot how it played out in the end. Good to do multiple times if you have a lot of free time on your hands.

So I would not say Clive's quest is challenging, though I doubt much people would have been able to complete it on their first play through, unless they used a walkthrough and did not want to enjoy all that Suikoden 2 has to offer for the very first time you play it. I would hate to have skipped so many of the great conversations and events you can witness without having to rush through the game for such a small extra. But still it is good to do Clive's sub quest at least a couple of times here and their for the couple of extra scenes you witness.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

See now, that's where we disagree. I say you don't need to skip everything in order to complete Clive's Quest. It's hard, very hard, but it can be and has been done before. Unfortunately, when I tried to repeat the process, I failed miserably, necessitating another attempt. Which caused me to get bored, and to put the game down... especially since GS4 came out not a day or two after that. Thus I had other things to worry about ^_^
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Drizzt

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Still I doubt new players of the game would have had much chance completing the quest on their first play through or even the second without skipping a good bit of the game. 'Veterans' like us would not have a problem in regards to 'skipping everything' to get it done. Yes it would be quite annoying if you were playing through the game to try and complete Clive's side quest and then failing by taking just a bit too long. It would definitely influence my playing it again for a good while...
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Justice Johnny

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Of course, everyone's first game isn't expected to be perfect, unless you have OCD. You have to get the "feel" and the flow of the story first before trying out for this. The first time I completed the subquest was during my fourth playthrough. The first and seconds ones were the typical ignorant player type of playthrough, missing a lot of stars and just getting a feel of the storyline and events, and enjoying the mini-games like the cliff-climbing, cook-off, Whack-A-Mole, Chinchirorin, etc. I got all 108 stars on my third playthrough, but I wasn't able to save Nanami because I didn't know you had to get them before Rockaxe. The fourth playthrough had me get the best ending (yay!) It was only in my fifth playthrough that I really got started in shooting for the Clive quest, and even then I didn't achieve it, as I didn't have the event flow down at the time. I overestimated myself and thought I was going to get it but I was overdue by about an hour.

At first I thought this quest would be really hard, but thanks to experience and knowledge, I found it really easy to do. I think that's what a player needs to be able to complete this quest easily, so I doubt this was made to be completed in the first playthrough, because that would be impractical. This quest is not really challenging once you get the hang of the game and/or the subquest itself, but I found myself always being challenged by it because I'm shooting for a perfect game and that includes getting Riou to Level 99, and I have to keep him down in every battle to be able to do that, and it's really hard to beat boss battles fast without the *Bright Shield.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I imagine it would take some time ensuring he's dead in every battle too. Unless you had a Firefly Rune, and I don't honestly remember if they existed in that game.
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Firefly Rune does exist in Suikoden II. Another easy way to get Riou (or anyone) KO'ed is by attaching Sylph Rune that would give HP to allies. So once you got KO'ed and revived with 1 HP everytime, you'd get the character KO'ed again and again and again with the Sylph Rune command.
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