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Editorial: Mechanics of Runic Power
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Jacques




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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I thought the editorial was excellent. The points were clear and I found the supporting details sufficient to driving home the point of the editorial! Vigorous head nodding in Kalidor's direction. :)

Kalidor wrote:
Quote:
Runes are a conduit to the primal power source that they stem from


This is a fascinating perspective. I suppose the other school of thought would be that the runes themselves contain a certain degree of that primal power. However, if I understand Kalidor's theory correctly, it is asserted that the runes (crystals, orbs) are actually connections or mediums to primal forces, rather than mere vessels or containers for these forces. In fact, if I'm reading this correctly, Kalidor's theory would imply that the runes themselves are connections and the bearers are mediums of that degree of primal power. Intriguing. :)

John Layfield wrote:
Hayashi Ujitsuna wrote:
Nice work sir! However I am also curious as to what the explanation is for skill and weapon runes. :P


That they're not Runes at all.

Skill and Weapon Runes, or so the theory goes, are just regular skills that due to gameplay limitations were forced into Rune slots. For example, the bearer of the Falcon Rune, as it were, could probably figure out how to hit someone with a sword more than once with the aid of a Rune.


Speculation: Perhaps it could be argued that these technique/skills runes enhance the human ability to reach greater heights? Surely a rune isn't necessary to perform a consecutive series of sword strikes, but perhaps they increase the possibility of increasing the accuracy, speed, vitality, etc of said skills?

Alas, there is a technical problem with the above speculation. Of all of the True Runes that have been revealed in the game, none of the technique/skill runes could have been derived from them, or so it would seem. So do these skill runes come from a True Rune or are they indeed, as John suggests, simply a manifestation of the games' limitations?

Runically yours,

Jacques
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Kalidor

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lots of questions here that I should get to answering, specifically on the status of the technique runes. What I have to say on the subject is essentially the same as what John Layfield said. The technique runes don't provide the bearer with any kind of special power, indeed, the technique runes are not actually runes themselves.

Let's take the commonly used example of the Falcon Rune, for example. Nobody who has not trained under Roundier Haia, excepte for Kika who is before Roundier Haia's time in theory, has a Falcon Rune. The Falcon Rune cannot be won from a random encounter, it can't be found lying about, and it is not a rune that shares a connection to or is birthed by a True Rune. The Falcon style of fencing is a school of swordplay, and that's it. The rune is simply the way the game mechanics are used to represent the fact that those characters have been trained in that style. This might present some confusion and in the future, yes, it would be better if Konami would be able to give characters these techniques without making them take up rune slots and be represented as runes. That isn't likely to happen though. This holds true for all of the technique runes, from viper to boar and so forth, along the way to Shin's Spider Slay and so on. Basically anything that is a particular school that would be learned.

Masa wrote:
In that sense I would say that they too have to be mastered, which is why most technique runes are dedicated to certain kinds of weapons. In the case of these runes, the physically 'empower' the bearer to move quickly and strike harder than what a normal person is actually capable of. Because the effect of this is often so intense, it many times will leave the bearer unbalanced due to just how much energy was put into the attack.


That's a pretty interesting theory Masa, and it does go towards explaining why some users become unbalanced after using certain technique runes. However, I would still posit that it is simply a form or style of attack that has nothing to do with runes. Going unbalanced after using the attack simply represents an opening in the user's guard after making the attack. Kind of like if you utilise this technique you can cause higher damage but in doing so you open up your defences.

Masa wrote:
Runes like, say, the Titan Rune are simple enough that anyone who can wield a two-handed sword can pick up on the technique and use the rune to its full potential. Runes like the Falcon Rune are based on long, rigorous training under Roundier Hala to learn that particular style. Which means that even though Flik might also wield a one-handed sword, he couldn't just grab a Falcon Rune and be beating people up like Valeria, Belcoot, and others.


This I can easily agree too as well, however, I would say again that they are techniques that are learned and are just represented by runes for gameplay mechanic. The technique offered by the Titan rune might be one that is pretty commonly known amongst professional soldiers, and so it is easily learnt and passed on. In game this is represented by the fact that you can buy a Titan Rune, have them dropped by enemies, and so forth.

Jacques wrote:
Speculation: Perhaps it could be argued that these technique/skills runes enhance the human ability to reach greater heights? Surely a rune isn't necessary to perform a consecutive series of sword strikes, but perhaps they increase the possibility of increasing the accuracy, speed, vitality, etc of said skills?

Alas, there is a technical problem with the above speculation. Of all of the True Runes that have been revealed in the game, none of the technique/skill runes could have been derived from them, or so it would seem. So do these skill runes come from a True Rune or are they indeed, as John suggests, simply a manifestation of the games' limitations?


The fact that the technique runes have no assosciation with the True Runes is another reason why I believe that they are simply learned techniques and not actually runes. I agree one hundred percent with John's assesment of things.
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Masa

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

While I would say you're right that, yes, they were intended to just be techniques and just laziness on Suikoden's part... the pure fact of the matter of course is that, for five games now, they've been Runes. They are used identically to Runes, right down to needing a Runemaster to equip them.

And I generally come from the school of thought that when it comes to fandoms... you don't dismiss something as a game mechanic, you explain it. Then you stand up on a soap box and threaten any person who dares tell you you're wrong. And then you kill someone for emphasis.

But essentially my point of course is that, yes Attack Runes were just intended to be technique abilities. But what about the Status Rune? They've had Accessories since day one. While it's true they have no True Rune origin, that doesn't invalidate that they are, indeed, Runes that serve some kind of use and while it can be dismissed as a game mechanic, they are as much in the game as Gadget's space satellite is. We're fans, we explain these things. That's why we're here and not doing important things with our lives.
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Kane of the Black Sea

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I would have to say that I am in agreement with the article. It seems very plausable to the Suiko world and ties in much more nicely in a less game-ish type of setting and more of a story type of setting.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Vextor, interesting idea. but how would Magic Spell Scrolls fit into your ideas?? Scrolls are crafted from runes themselves, and as shown in one of the Suikogaidens, it takes a specific spell and lets you conjure it. (Jeane helps Nash focus to release a specific spell when they are in Greenhill...)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hey KFC, I didn't write the article. It was written by Kalidor.
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