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the dancing the kids do these days
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

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No, not because my 22 year old friend has a conscience, but because the girls want to attract older, and more mature men.

Second, 16 and 17 is give or take 8 years after someone loses the innocence of childhood. One of my cousin's little friends lost his virginity a week before his 13th birthday; being a teenager is a lot closer to being an adult than it is to being a child and while it's fun to coddle your kids when they're 7 years old, when they're 15 they'll hate you for it.


the other topic got deleted I had one. The girls who want to attract older men shold punished, if she can pass for 22 and lie about the age, she will posslby have some guy be branded a sex offender.

as for the being a teenager thing? I was a 'kid' at 12. not an adult not a teenager. It kills me being so messed up

as for dancing I don't have any intrest what so ever, wich depresses me beause I'll never get a boyfriend, if I can't and don't want to wiggle and stomp to attract one, I won't.

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The trend of promiscuous dancing is only becoming more popular because it's culturally acceptable now. Everyone is allowed to have sex, it's okay. We should embrace it, least that's what I hear about it anyways. I imagine we're still riding that sexual revolution of our parents generation. Don't lose hope in society though Kuwaizer and others who are put off by dirty dancing

what id 12 yr olds start doing that? guess its ok, just like letting 13 yr old girls read YAOI.
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It's obvious Teens have hormones they can't deal with and have a tendency to let their hormones do the driving. This is very influential in the teenage desire to reproduce.

then 23 yr old shold be able to have sex with 15 yr olds.

Quote:
Third...'hump'n monkey'? We are a bunch of hairless monkeys so I think you're describing sex here, and while it might be possible in a few species, I don't think monkeys do it facing each other
the dance moves they do look like monkies having sex. the girl bends over the guy grabs her hips and wiggles and thrusts. that is dancing?
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AA

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So really what your saying is you don't want these "kids" of 15-17 to be thinking about sex or to be allowed to explore a bit because you don't have a boyfriend?

I think your problem with the dancing Ku is that you seem to be slightly jealous of the fun they are having whilst dancing, and yes it is dancing, hell even i dance that way with girls sometimes, it doesn't mean anything.

Ku wrote:
just like letting 13 yr old girls read YAOI.


Yeah sure, i don't see a problem with that.

Quote:
then 23 yr old shold be able to have sex with 15 yr olds.


I have no idea where that came from or how it is relevant to the topic of dancing like mating monkeys.
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Kalidor

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think that the issue here comes to the rights of the respective parties and who has the authority to decide what is right and wrong for people to do, and furthermore, on what grounds.

The first thing we have to do is look at the issue of the dancing itself and then ask some questions about it.

1) Is it right for people to bump and grind?
2) Is it right for people below a certain age, let's say 16 as that is the age of consent in many western countries (and I'm from a western country) , to dance in this manner?
3) Finally, if we're to look at it from a fair perspective, historical precident must also be examined, since that's what we base a lot of our rules/customs of the present on.

1) First of all we have the act of bumping and grinding itself. This is an act that obviously brings pleasure to some people or they would not be doing it. Apparently it brings distaste to some people as well, as kuwaizair and some others seem to be quite opposed to it. In a situation like this, the relative good and negativity of the example comes into play. The people are dancing, it is making them happy. The people are dancing, it is making you unhappy. However, you are not directly involved in the activity itself. Since you are not involved in the activity, you can chose to ignore it, or avoid situations where you come into contact with this activity. This might mean that you need to avoid certain dance clubs, certain channels on television, etc. However, if the activity offends you that deeply then you should be willing to do so. If it does not offend you that deeply it is simply something that must be borne. It is not an activity that is forced upon you, so you have no right to take it away from someone else because it offends your sensibilities.

2) Next the question of if it's right for people below the age of 16 to bump and grind. This is more difficult to answer because people can have widely different ideas of what the dangers of bumping and grinding are and what it can lead to. I'm going to try and break it down to observable effects as best I can, though I admit, there can be much more going on in the mind of people engaged in the activity than is apparent.

First off, when a pair of 15 year olds bump and grind, they will be very close. This proximity can lead to sexual arrousal in both parties. Is this a bad thing? That depends very much on how much you are going to link bumping and grinding with what might come afterwards, and also, if you think that 15 year olds should not be sexual beings. However, I would posit that you cannot in fact claim that there is a direct link between bumping and grinding and sex itself. If two 15 year olds go to a dance, bump and grind, and that night end up having sex, it is entirely possible that this would have happened anyway without bumping and grinding being involved. Furthermore, in regards to the arousal itself, I know from experience that a 15 year old guy doesn't need to be bumping and grinding to become sexually aroused. It can happen from simply looking at a girl, thinking about her, and a host of other things.

Also, sexual arrousal and kids expressing themselves sexually in the form of bumping and grinding needn't be a bad thing. Sexual tension can build up and bumping and grinding could be one way of helping to release it. These reactions are happening from their bodies anyway and not bumping and grinding is not going to put it off. If kids can release their sexual tension by simply dancing instead of letting it build up to the point where they have sex, this is probably a good thing.

There is the third possibility that the kids are simply having fun, enjoying themselves while dancing to music. This is certainly not a bad thing from my perspective and from most people's perspectives I imagine. The form might be foreign, but the feelings are not.

For all of these reasons I feel that there is no reason why bumping and grinding below the age of 16 is not a bad thing.

3) Finally we have historical precident. As has already been brought up earlier in the topic, throughout the course of the last one hundred years styles of dance have changed, usually to the shock and horror of the older "parental" generation that is observing the younger folk who are participating in these new styles. We've had the example of swing dancing already. It was shocking for the kids to be dancing in this fast, passionate manner. I'd bet that disco received a similar reaction from a lot of people. Looking back on these styles I think most people would say that they were quite benign and not worth the fuss that was made over them. We need to remember that if we look back in twenty years from now we'll probably feel the same way. It's a style devloped by the young that will quite likely evolve into something else in a short number of years. Even if we really wanted to stamp it out, it wouldn't happen.

Well, there's my more comprehensive take on the subject. Feel free to rebut or support me at your leisure!
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Timbo

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I can only see a problem if this type of dancing led to increases of sexual assault and rape, but the statistics don't match up with that. Granted,most sexual assault isn't reported, but that would be consistent through out the years.

I don't like the type of dancing I see now-a-days because I think it looks silly, but let people do it if nothing criminal is coming out of it. If you don't like, go away from it.
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Yohn

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Oh... school dances.... I was in the class that got "Time Warp" from The Rocky Horror Picture Show banned from being played in our school district at school-organized dances. I guess that "organized" pelvic thrusting isn't something that's smiled upon. XD
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Anais

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm definitely not a fan of this particular style of dance, but I think it's fine in the right place. The problem is that dirty dancing is meant for clubs and house parties, but teens are taking the style to school dances and stepping over the lines of the schools' policies.

However, while there's nothing wrong with the dance itself, I'm annoyed at how popular it is among younger children. My father teaches elementary school, and apparently bumping and grinding was a problem at his last school dance. IMO, that kind of dancing should be restricted to people 14 and over.
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Zeik Tuvai

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Edit: Never mind...
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St. Ajora

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think it's hilarious how the children of today make a fool of themselves by bumping uglies with the nearest, available partner. As someone who also stumbled clumsily and awkwardly through puberty (and made it out okay) all I can do is just laugh and make fun of them. A 13 year old girl moving the hands of her 13 year old boyfriend all over her puberty striken body is just so funny. I think children are funny when they try to act more mature than they really are.

How come mature is now defined by how dirty we dance? How come these kids are bitching about school and wah wah wah my parents won't let me do ANYTHING and ohhh I want to rebel and do things not recommended for my age just to show that I can!

It's ridiculous. These little turds will all grow up and turn into our mothers and fathers, just as we will (to an extent, GUH) and see how freakish and icky they used to act when their hormones used to race.

Just let them grow up. As a 19 year old female going on 18, I'm appalled at the way I used to dance just because it was the normal thing. Mind you, I'd dance like that now but I shouldn't have been doing it then. It just leaves me with a sleazy sort of memory about myself, not one that I'm proud of (of all the funny things to say...). But seriously, all the "edgy" adult things I used to do...eh. They're not entirely worth losing self respect over. And they're not fond to look back on, either. Of course, these kids won't realize that until they're old and grey, so we have to endure their materialistic, sexualized crap for another few decades.
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Gil-galad

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Look at the movie/musical Footloose. Today we look back at that movie and think it's ridiculous for people to condemn such dancing. 20 years from now people will look back at us, and think it's ridiculous of us to condemn people for dancing like that. It's all about changing styles, and times. Even if I think it's stupid looking, that isn't going to change the new styles.
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Eden

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I know I have told thos story more than once already, but still it is one of my nightmares and that means a lot, because I don't have many nightmares at all...

It was one and a half year ago when I helped some friends at school who were "godfathers" of little children who where new at the school. They planned a party, looked for good music and organised everything. I just helped, because I had nothing better to do and thought it could be fun to hang around with my friends, listening to good music.
I was fatally wrong!
Those little thirteen year old were "dancing" to Xtina and Britney and German wannabe-gangsta-rapstars! Each time we tried to play some real good stuff they left the dance floor... But aside from the acustic terror there was something a dozen times more cruel!

The girls, wearing not much, actually something like a bell and a hat! It would even look bad on Paris Hilton, who isn't really known for her prude fashion style... That was disgusting, but when those little girls started to do a lap dance on one of those card-holder for the huge world maps, I could barely resist to puke...

However, I just want to say that I knew from the moment I read the title of this topic, who made it... :mrgreen:
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Ninjar

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Milan Fiori wrote:
I'm all in favor of teaching actual dancing in school. It'll solve the bump and grind problem, and it's one hell of a work out. I go Salsa dancing one or twice a week, and come home exhausted.


My high school tried that while I was there and needless to say, it didn't work. It also barred us from the whole grinding, as long as we didn't do it from behind. That didn't really stop anyone though. Typically though, I don't really see it as all that much of a problem. To tell the truth, I would like to see someone try to change the way people do things nowadays. However, Ley probably has the best possible means of doing it.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think some of the dancing that everyone does these days is pushing it, especially in public places meant for families.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Dancing is about expression and most of that expression is sexual and always has been sexual. Especially partner dancing. I think all the things that my great grandmother used to tell me about what the kids, 12 and up, used to do in her day. I see that most things are still the same.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What do I think? I dance like that. It's fun, and it gets me aroused. What's not to like?
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Puu

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

:D I don't approve of such dances, and thought I'd add my two cents anyway...

I don't think sexually suggestive dances of the extreme sort should be allowed within school functions (of course, as the standards change over time, that standard may be raised, however, I'm sure everyone has an idea of what constitutes as a very sexual dance and a not very sexual dance). It's not that I'm being kill-joy, or anything. If the teens choose to dance like that, I would allow them, so long as they do it outside school functions. The reason for this is that, regardless of what kind of school it is (whether it be Public, Private, or Catholic), schools are responsible for molding students to a certain... balance? I can't find the word for it for now, but I believe that schools, no matter the kind, do have some standard...

Also, not to be belittling teenagers' maturity, but you have to admit, while certainly become more mature, many teenagers just don't acknowledge the consequences. It's not really the matter of virginity and all (I mean, in this day and age, how many actually cherish virginity and stay chaste before marriage? It's a near ancient practice...). It's more a matter of the emotional consequences, the STDs, the teen pregnancy... those ugly stuff that tend to follow sex, between two teenagers who probably don't understand it as well as the next fully-grown adult. Not that provocative dancing always leads to that, but we have to assume it can and with that in mind, shouldn't the schools naturally take preventive measures? Just like how it's not the parents problem if their kids do crap after leaving the house... the school can't really do anything about what happens outside it, but must care about what happens within it....

These are my jumbled thoughts anyway.
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