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Rakgi's Father, Brandeau and Steele
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poorguy171




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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm pretty sure Lino told Lazlo at that late-night conversation that the Queen died in a fight against pirates (which would explain why the ship in the intro movie looks like a pirate ship).

Anyways, this only made me further realize how awful IV's story is. It had so much potential with great themes and an awesome setting. Too bad oversimplification, poor writing, and a ton of holes ruined it!
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

poorguy171 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Lino told Lazlo at that late-night conversation that the Queen died in a fight against pirates (which would explain why the ship in the intro movie looks like a pirate ship).


Unless pirates wear Kooluk military uniforms (and they might, it could have been hallowe'en), it was Kooluk officers in that opening movie.

Sars got it right. It's just stupid. Why a small boy and a mother allowed to be caretakers of a ruin with not only natural monsters, which some might dismiss as pure gameplay and so doesn't count (although I believe that Konami tried to explain why monsters roamed L'Renouille in Suikoden II in the past), but also some sort of giant ancient golem of doom is beyond me.

But there are lots of things like that.

*Why did Lino instantly trust Lazlo enough to have him recruit people from the Dauntless? Even Tir McDohl had Mathiu's dead sister's earring.

*How DID Troy decimate the Gaien fleet way back when? Nothing in the game ever showed him to be anything beyond competent (with a stick up his ass).

*Since when does two boats count as a fleet? And what strategy did Elenor ever come up with?

*Why did Kika's ending say she died at sea, only to bring her back in Tactics and not even have the decency to kill her off there?!

And so on.
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Raww Le Klueze




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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
And what strategy did Elenor ever come up with?

Well she did use her family connections to get Scarlet Moon to cause problems by the Kooluk border, ensuring that El-Eal wouldn't recieve any reinforcements and be understaffed at the time of their attack.

The fact that El-Eal is pretty much as far away from the border that you can get though should mean that any border disputes wouldn't have any effect on their regiments but logic is not something Suikoden IV is very familair with.
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Scrooge McDuck

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

John Layfield wrote:

*Why did Lino instantly trust Lazlo enough to have him recruit people from the Dauntless? Even Tir McDohl had Mathiu's dead sister's earring.

*How DID Troy decimate the Gaien fleet way back when? Nothing in the game ever showed him to be anything beyond competent (with a stick up his ass).

*Since when does two boats count as a fleet? And what strategy did Elenor ever come up with?

*Why did Kika's ending say she died at sea, only to bring her back in Tactics and not even have the decency to kill her off there?!

And so on.

* One might say that Lino immediately trusted Lazlo because he felt pity towards Lazlo's burden of bearing the Rune of Judgement and it also reminded him of his wife. However, I agree that for a king to trust a complete stranger with no apparent skill whatsoever to have an involvement into a nation's secret is somewhat peculiar (unless if we want to include the "eyes of destiny" argument apparent in the first Suikoden to the third).

* Troy was a moron. An underdeveloped one at that, too.

* Agreed. Any battle strategy Elenor ever came up with was very simple and could be conjured by most of the world's population, such as "use two ships as decoys and use two ships to attack them from the side."
To be fair, she did organize a somewhat brilliant strategy of making the Scarlet Moon Empire attack northern Kooluk border to turn the Emperor's attention away from El-Eal. However, that strategy was similar to how Moravia was taken over, using Jowston distractions.

* Um, I tend to think the "died at sea" part only suggested that she remained a pirate and kept sailing for the rest of her life...
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Scrooge McDuck wrote:
* Um, I tend to think the "died at sea" part only suggested that she remained a pirated and kept sailing for the rest of her life...


This is what I presumed, where else would she die anyway if shes a "true" pirate?
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poorguy171




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

John Layfield wrote:
poorguy171 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Lino told Lazlo at that late-night conversation that the Queen died in a fight against pirates (which would explain why the ship in the intro movie looks like a pirate ship).


Unless pirates wear Kooluk military uniforms (and they might, it could have been hallowe'en), it was Kooluk officers in that opening movie.

I just went back and saw that. It's probably just another one of their little holes. The ships are of the pirate design, and I'm still pretty sure that Lino told Lazlo that it was during a pirate attack (can anyone confirm this?). Personally, I would go buy the script instead of a barely-visible corpse in an intro movie (unless of course they mis-translated).

*Why did Lino instantly trust Lazlo enough to have him recruit people from the Dauntless? Even Tir McDohl had Mathiu's dead sister's earring.

No idea...

*How DID Troy decimate the Gaien fleet way back when? Nothing in the game ever showed him to be anything beyond competent (with a stick up his ass).

This is something that really disappointed me in the game. Troy had so much potential (they could've even given him a True Rune), and yet he never receives any development during the entire game.

*Since when does two boats count as a fleet? And what strategy did Elenor ever come up with?

Small fleets was one of my first complaints of the game (I believe the biggest fleet in the game was 4 ships :|). Elenor did have some midly decent strategies though. Having the citizens of Obel sail a ship out of that cave to make the enemy think they were surrounded comes to mind (although it's nothing compared to Leon's or Lucretia's tactics).

*Why did Kika's ending say she died at sea, only to bring her back in Tactics and not even have the decency to kill her off there?!

The same reason they said Warlock was killed by people researching Rune Cannons, and yet he never even showed up in Tactics.

And so on.


I've got some more

*Why exactly did the pirates attack Razril at the beginning? After 3+ playthroughs, it's still not perfectly clear to me.

*I don't understand how sending two people (who can't even fight) who washed up on shore along with Lazlo counts as allying with him (yeah, I'm talking to you Nay Island).
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Are you talking about Glen and Katarina? Or do you mean the attack involving Dario? The first attack was just a Gaien Knight training excercise.
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Scrooge McDuck

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

poorguy171 wrote:

*Why did Kika's ending say she died at sea, only to bring her back in Tactics and not even have the decency to kill her off there?!

The same reason they said Warlock was killed by people researching Rune Cannons, and yet he never even showed up in Tactics.

And so on.

Ahem, that is because Warlock was already dead in Rhapsodia.
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poorguy171




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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I know he was already dead, but if they were going to make a game about people looking into Rune cannons, and then say that he was killed by such people, they could've at least let us kill him in Tactics. No date was given before Tactics, so there's no reason they couldn't have put him in it.

And I'm referring to Dario's attack (the big one where Glen dies I believe). Sorry, I can't really remember. It's been a while since I played that part in the game.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i wanna say either they were paid or they believed that Brandaeu was captured and sent them all there to try and revover him.

Becuase here is my belief if Mizuke,Akhagi, and ramada saw the rune change it's owner on a boat far away it is possibly another group of pirates could of seen the light or possibly heard it thinking something happened to brandaeu. So then Dario trying to impress Kika goes off with a fleet and trys to find out what happens
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

For one, tactics itself does not suck. It's pretty challenging. The voice acting could do a bit better though. I managed to recruit everyone you could possibly recruit, even the very very hard to get mercenaries, but that's thanks to Lazlo.

Edit: Whoops, thought there was only one page. -reads pages 2 and 3-

Edit2: Okay, caught up. And yes. It doesn't suck. =P And I do have to comment that the timeline for the RoP is really screwy, but I pay it no mind because then my head would hurt and it would cause me to like the game less. Which is why I don't think about it.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

poorguy171 wrote:
I know he was already dead, but if they were going to make a game about people looking into Rune cannons, and then say that he was killed by such people, they could've at least let us kill him in Tactics.

Thing is, that's not what they said. He was killed by a mob for making Rune Cannons, not by people looking into Rune Cannons.

It's going to be very hard to have a game make sense of things when you make things up on your own.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Raww Le Klueze wrote:
poorguy171 wrote:
I know he was already dead, but if they were going to make a game about people looking into Rune cannons, and then say that he was killed by such people, they could've at least let us kill him in Tactics.

Thing is, that's not what they said. He was killed by a mob for making Rune Cannons, not by people looking into Rune Cannons.

It's going to be very hard to have a game make sense of things when you make things up on your own.


"Captured by a militant faction insisting that he atone for the crime of spreading Rune Cannons to the world, he dies."

Mob? Nope. Kyril was technically a military group from Scarlet Moon (at least the Heinz bit was). There's no reason that Kyril couldn't have been that "military faction," or that it couldn't have been one of the factions from Kooluk.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Er, "military" and "militant", while do not necessarily collide, have two different meanings. Being military means being a part of an army. Being militant entails being extremely supportive to a cause that common people would often find unacceptable. In this sense, even mobs could be a "militant faction".

Judging from that description, neither Kyril's group nor the Kooluk factions would fit the group who killed Warlock.

First, while there are no doubt that Kyril's group was involved in a lot of fighting, there were definitely not militant, as they always maintain the stance of the righteousness-upholding goody-two-shoes without even taking it to the extreme. They kill only those who threaten their lives and a scheming lunatic. Their mission was only to investigate and destroy Rune Cannons, not to capture the person responsible, insist that he atone for his crime and kill him.

Second, while the Patriarchal Faction could arguably fall into the category of "militant", killing Warlock would serve them no purpose. On the contrary, Warlock's death put an obstacle in their plan, as he was the only one who could summon Rune Cannon parts. Nor would the Monarch Faction would bother to go out of their way to hold Warlock responsible.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

poorguy171 wrote:
Raww Le Klueze wrote:
poorguy171 wrote:
I know he was already dead, but if they were going to make a game about people looking into Rune cannons, and then say that he was killed by such people, they could've at least let us kill him in Tactics.

Thing is, that's not what they said. He was killed by a mob for making Rune Cannons, not by people looking into Rune Cannons.

It's going to be very hard to have a game make sense of things when you make things up on your own.


"Captured by a militant faction insisting that he atone for the crime of spreading Rune Cannons to the world, he dies."

Mob? Nope. Kyril was technically a military group from Scarlet Moon (at least the Heinz bit was). There's no reason that Kyril couldn't have been that "military faction," or that it couldn't have been one of the factions from Kooluk.


All "militant faction" means is that whoever captured him was incredibly vocal and aggressive with regard to whatever cause they are supporting. It has nothing to do with the military.
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