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Do YOU believe in Magic?
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Starslasher

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:43 pm    Post subject: Do YOU believe in Magic? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hola people.

Seeing how lots of people would like to be magicians in this forum, i thought that i should make a topic on actual Magic/Sorcery. I'm not talking about "Sigfried and Roy" magicians.

In this forum, you can put any opinion on the topic at hand. If you can't find any, try answering these questions:



1. Do you believe that magic actually EXISTS? Why or why not?

2. Do you believe IN magic? Again, why or why not?

3. Would you like to have a hand in it, if given the access to it?




I'll answer the first question.
Yes, i do believe that magic does exist in real life. Make no mistake, there is sorcery/magic in virtually all cultures. There are druids, witch doctors, shamans, etc. throughout the ages, all the way from North America to Indonesia. Being a Muslim, the Quran tells that sorcery does exist. And it tells not to use it, that it's a big sin of the tongue to speak a word of sorcery. Not only will it corrupt the individual, but it will associate spirits (not neccessarily Satan or demons) with that person's worship. Well, that's in Islam. But i haven't met anyone who does practice magic like Wiccans. And i therefore shouldn't judge people so quickly.

Concerning the second question.
No, i don't believe in magic. I have looked up some sites about sorcery. I read about necromancy as well. Can you imagin that it does exist? However, in reading about it, certain rituals are needed to call upon such powerful sorcery. I forgot where the sites were, but i do remember that these ritual supposedly involve murder, adultery, etc. For necromancy, the raping of little girls supposedly is part of their practice. But there's pretty much alot of trash on the Net, nothing should be taken at the first impression.

As for the third question.
Even though it's forbidden in my religion (and in Christianity and Judaism, i'm assuming), i can't help but be curious as how to use magic. I'm an adventurous person and want to try a hand in everything. I have gambled and drank before, but unfortuantely/fortunately never got a hangover. I would also like to see how magic would feel like, for experience's sake. I haven't met a Wiccan before, but i sure would like to meet one.
Once i've experienced sorcery, then i will be able to make my judgement on it :twisted: !
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Benit149

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm not that wild about magic in our world... it's not something my mind has brushed itself on. Whenever people talk of magic in fantasy worlds like Suikoden, they rarely involve sacrifices except for major storyline spells. But in our world, as you mentioned, magic requires sacrifices. That's just stupid and corrupting, and sorcery should remain unspoken.

In the end, the only thing I believe in is what I can do, not what some spellbook can do for me that requires destroying my morales.
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Ayreon

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No idont believe that magic ACTUALLY exists,but who knows,maybe in other countries,or even in your same neighborhood,i think its a complicated topic,just like U.F.O. or the Chupacabras lol.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1/2. No, I don't believe that magic exists, however I confine the term "magic" to mean something of black arts, curses, invoking spirits or ghosts, etc. I do however believe that one can be entrusted with spectacular gifts from a higher power (be it God, Allah, Jesus or another, though for the sake of my argument I'm using God since I'm Christian) For example, Jesus, who was able to perform miracles and heal the sick (and in one instance, revive the dead IIRC.) So you can say I believe in Miracles, but not Magic.

3. If God believed me to be worthy of the ability to perform miracles, and gave me a gift accordingly, I'd gladly oblige to helping anyone who required my aid, so again, while I would never attempt to use "magic" and invoke some sort of forbidden power, if I were given the ability to help people even moreso than I can now, yes, I would use it.
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Ranadiel

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This seems like the start of an interesting topic. I might as well get my two cents in now.

1. I think that there is a good chance that magic might actually exist. However should it truly exist I also believed that it was sealed away long before any of us were born. As to whether someone sealed it away or if it was sealed away as part of the natural cycle I can't say. I don't really have much reason to believe this other than gut feeling, so I can't very well back up this statement.

2. I barely understand the difference between this question and the previous one, but I believe my answer to this one is maybe. From my understanding of modern "magic" it is mostly wish fullfilment type stuff. My belief in this is that it isn't actually magic, but it is instead imposing your will onto your enviorment. I forgot what the exact term is, but I read about it once. Supposedly if you write something like "I will get a better job." five times every night it will eventually happen. My belief is that the previous format is exerting a small amount of your will onto the enviorment to slowly change it. With magic you are imposing a much larger amount of will through focusing your mind on the ritual itself.

I think that those supposed rituals that involve murder and other such things are just ways to scare people and are only done by mentaly unstable people who are eventually caught by the police.

3. It would really depend on the type of magic. It might be interesting to use "divine" magic, but healing type spells aren't my thing. "Arcane" spells, in the sense of D&D, would be fun to cast, but I just can't see myself devoting my time to them. Rune magic, like in Suikoden, might be interesting to mess with, but once again not my style. However the type that I would like to use would be spirit magic. When I say that I mean magic where I call upon energies of elemental spirits in order to create the effects of magic. I'm not sure why, but this type of magic has always appealed to me.
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Atavaka

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, it seems interesting. Here's my opinions on magic:

1. Do you believe that magic actually EXISTS? Why or why not?

Maybe. There's a lot of stuff no one understands in this world, one of these things being the presence of supernatural phenomena. In every popular religion, there's an element of mysticism which is either shunned or encouraged, and the former is normally the case. If so many ancient religions believe in mystical worldly influences, then there must be a least a tiny grain of truth to the exsistence of magic. But who knows? If there is magic, it's probably not in a form one would expect (like pyschic abilities, the mind's influence over surroundings, etc.).

2. Do you believe IN magic? Again, why or why not?

*laughs* It's my understanding that you're supposed to avoid magic; it always seems to get the characters in folk tales into trouble. And so many religions claim it's evil, that I find trusting in such an infamous influence to be a bit... risky. Besides, part of me argues that it doesn't even exsist. So no, I don't believe IN magic.

Now, if you talk about using your mind to alter your surroundings, then yes, I do believe in that sort of magic. I think that people interpret their surroundings and the people around them the way they want to, to a certain extent. Therefore, your mind does sort of have an influence on reality. Isn't that a sort of magic?

3. Would you like to have a hand in it, if given the access to it?

Well, that would depend on the magic, now wouldn't it? Video game magic would be a lot of fun to play around with, but that's probably because it's meant to be fun in the video game. I really can't imagine things as destructive as, say, the Thunder Rune being unleashed into reality. Probably wouldn't be a very peaceful world.

If you're referring to modern 'magicians,' (slight of hand tricks, etc.), then no. I've never had an interest in stage magic, and I never will.

On the theological side, there's those mystical magic(ks) which descend from religious belief, This can include a simple prayer to the Christian God to the nature-voodoo employed by Wicca. I don't agree with darker things (like cursing, witchcraft, employment of supernatural forces), so I would never engage in them myself. I mean, who knows what you're really messing with when you do stuff like that. Prayer, on the other hand, is a form of magic that I agree with (faith), but don't engage in personally.

So, to simplify what I just said, it's all a big no. I agree with some magic, disagree with others, but in the end I won't have a part in any of it.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ayreon wrote:
No idont believe that magic ACTUALLY exists,but who knows,maybe in other countries,or even in your same neighborhood,i think its a complicated topic,just like U.F.O. or the Chupacabras *laugh*.

heh your a MAGICIAN too!

1./2. I only believe in certain types of magic like curses but not the other things

3. If there was magic helps with health issues then i would probably want to have a hand in it
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Sage

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Do you believe that magic exsits?

Depends on how you define magic. If you define it as an unexplainable occurrance, then no. There is a rational explanation for everything. While it may be the case that we don't know the reason now, at some point in time a satisfactory explanation can be found. If you define magic as some sort of mysticism, then again no. Curses and such are just occurrances of unfortunate circumstances. Often the power of such curses lie within the mind of the alleged "cursed" person. Now, if you define magic as an ability that someone has (even for a short while) that is highly unusual or a series of very fortunate events and no one yet has an explanation, then yes, I'll buy that. "Miracles" would fall under that category in my opinion.

2. Do you believe in magic?

I don't put any faith in magic. As I've said above, I think it's all random chance, so in essence, it's gambling. If you put all your faith into random chance and take no direct action of your own, that's foolish in my opinion. For example, if you wait for someone with some healing "power" to come along and save you rather than seek medical attention, that's a huge risk with (most likely) very regrettable payoff.

3. Would you like to have a hand in it, if given access to it?

Probably not. In my eyes, playing with magic (as I've described it) is essentially cheating. Never getting a cold because you can zap it away as opposed to taking care of yourself and running the risk is like cheating in my opinion. Granted, it wouldn't be bad, but I wouldn't do it. On top of that, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" comes to my mind. If you had the kind of power that this magic is supposed to give, sooner or later, everyone would abuse it in some fashion. That being said, under extreme circumstances, I believe I could be persuaded to use it. But under those circumstances, I might also lose myself in the process.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1 and 2?. Do you believe that magic actually EXISTS? Why or why not?
I believe the thought and spirit of magic exists in people if thats hard enough to explain. I mean Magic only excists because people make it happen. Through Mircles luck, or perhaps planning. However I think things can't become without a cause. So for example, if though a magitian in real life is techincally just using optical illusions and tricks ect.. my opinon thats still magic.

3. Would you like to have a hand in it, if given the access to it?
I think I"m taking this question to more litteral and less mystical level :-P. Anywho I guess I used to have a small magition set as a child. I used to do cool tricks for my parents, and I"d mess them up alot but they'd still clap and chear me on. Personally I dont' think that'd be a fun carrer, some of the stuff they do are extreamly dangerous, and I don't believe it's worth it.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well first off this topic name I do believe is one of the old slogans from McDonalds commercials which is all fine and good but thats straying a bit from the topic a little bit yeah I know. Aside from that I can say that yeah I do not believe in the whole magic thing when it comes to this whole big Las Vegas and such show nonsense as it's merely something done with tricks and such to try and make a big deal with it. Actually you know what i can say that I dont believe there is anything at all when it comes right down to it and it is merely a trick that someone is pulling off. Thats just my opinion on that which is why I am even saying this much and thats all that matters to me. For those that dont agree with said opinion that is just too bad I suppose isnt it and you'll just have to learn to deal with it. I mean I have to get used to knowing your opinions and if i disagree with them I just live with it didnt I? Of course I did.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Do you believe that magic exsits?

Yes, I do. Let me define what I think magic is... Magic is a word that describes events that occur which leave spectators in awe. That can be as cheesy as a Lance Burton show, or mysterious and beautiful, like watching shooting stars. Almost everything has a scientific explanation (Lance Burton uses illusions, shooting stars are chunks of minerals floating by our planet). Magic can even be as simple as watching birds build nests. However, even when a person knows the explanation behind a magical event, there always remains the elements of wonder and awe. Magic is something present in nature (often acknowledged by "pagan" religions) but also present in our technological world (I was amazed by the internet when I first logged on, for example). Magic is that feeling you get when something wondrous happens. So yeah, I believe it exists.

2. Do you believe in magic?

Yep. My answer to the first question pretty much sums it up. :wink:

3. Would you like to have a hand in it, if given access to it?

No, there's no need for me to tamper with magic. I think it's working fine, just the way it is.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Do you believe that magic actually EXISTS? Why or why not?

Sadly, I do not believe that magic exists in this world. That is not to say, however, that Magic cannot exist in either:

a. The Afterlife (which if you look at a combination of Socrates/Descartes and Buddhism you will see exists). There has to be magic in the afterlife.

b. One of the infinite other planets on the infinite galaxies that exist in the universe. Whose to say that a planet off somewhere 2 million light years away doesn't have completely arcane ways of conjuring effects like magic?

I had this interesting theory that if the universe is to an extent based on causality that when our bodies died our sould were randomly incarnated on another planet across the universe, completely unaware of our past life. Hopefully I'll get transmitted to a world with cool magic.

2. Do you believe IN magic? Again, why or why not?

I said that the abstract, elemental type of magic found in Suikoden and RPGs doesn't exist, but that doesn't mean there aren't other forms of magic. The miracle of birth, when a person sacrifices themself to save a mass of people, a child's perception of the world. All of these are magic in some way. Stop me if I'm getting too corny.l

3. Would you like to have a hand in it, if given the access to it?

A big 'Hell yes' to this question. If I found out one day that magic does exist and some sorceror wanted to teach me the ways of it, you know I'd be going to learn with him. It's something that would come in handy in so many ways if you knew how to use it. You could choose to become a superhero, or you could just (do what I'd do and...) stay the same person but do magic tricks in the bar and stuff like that.

I think it would be good if magic existed, but like everything else the government would just find a way to make it all twisted, and before you know it you'd have people with supercharged magic fighting battles. Quite frankly, I'd rather die from a bullet than a fire or lightning spell. Good thread, Starslasher, magic is something I always think would be cool to have, or at least see.


Last edited by Vincent Chase on Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Do you believe that magic actually EXISTS? Why or why not?

2. Do you believe IN magic? Again, why or why not?

3. Would you like to have a hand in it, if given the access to it?

1) The problem with "magic" is that it's so vague. When I was a kid, I tried to make an action figure I had disappear, but instead I made a pencil appear next to it. So does magic exist? I've seen it. You just have to believe.

2) I don't believe in it enough to make it happen; faith is one of those things where, unless you have it, you won't see it. Tricky, tricky.

3) Everyone has access to it. You just gotta believe.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The irony here is that you are asking a magician if she believes in magic. lol

Anyway, I'm not actually sure if magic exists or not. I mean, there are a lot of people that believe so, and if it doesn't, then that would be a real blow to them. It actually would make things like the Salem Witch Trials more pointless then they already were. Then again, the fact that it is so widespread does not necessarily mean that it exists. For instance, just because so many people believe in God, doesn't mean that he exists (I'm not looking for a religious discussion here. I'm just stating an example.).

I do know that somethings just can't be explained yet. UFOs and ghosts are just an example of phenomenons that cannot as of yet be scientifically explained. Some things could simply be wild coincidence. Most pagan religions are just unscientific explainations for everyday occurrences.

I actually have a friend that is a Wiccan, so I know of some of their beliefs. For instance, if you are driving on the highway and someone speeds past you, as a Wiccan, you can't wish that this person get pulled over by a cop. You can, however, wish that there be a cop watching for speeders at the next overpass. :wink: See the tricky thinking? You can't directly wish misfortune on others, but you can wish for the safety of others. I actually think this is a valid point.

Another time, my friend showed me a book about the Wiccan religion and how they believed the world was created. I can't remember it all, but it was something about this divine woman creating the world by dancing, then getting lonely, so she created a great Lord to rule equally at her side. Then they created animals, birds, fish, and humans. Then they made angels and power spirits to guide the humans. They were the sort of thing that could not be seen, but were always with us. Then, because humans needed healers, the Lord and Lady created Witches and taught them magic and how to communicate with the elements and the spirits sent to guide humans. The humans, however, got scared of the Witches because they were different, so they persecuted them.

So, according to this, people can access magic, but if you are ignorant of it and fear those that are different, then it doesn't look like it would be a very smart thing to mess with.

As to the last question, if it is a completely natural thing as suggested above, then sure. The whole point of a witch is to protect the humans, right? So why would I not take up the job if it was part of me? I guess that's just my thoughts on it. This is, of course, according to the Wiccan religion. I'm not an expert, but if I did believe in this sort of thing, it seems that the curses that you speak of wouldn't exist, especially if it's all about the protection of the human race. As far as I know, the only real curses that Wiccans perform are bindings, which mean that they prevent someone from doing harm to others. Then again, I could be wrong. I am by no means an expert. I also don't mean to alienate anyone. It is not my intention to prove or disprove a religion. I just want to give people a different perspective on things.

Finally, it seems to me that video game magic is the kind that doesn't exist. The ones where you can shoot fireballs and bring down lightning down on your foes just doesn't seem to be the realistic kind, although the indian rain dance comes close. lol In fact, we have something like that up here in Michigan. It's call the snow day dance, and it works!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Yes, I think it exists. As was stated in the first post, many-heck, most all-cultures have legends and stories of a magical nature. While most I think are feeble attempts to explain natural phenomenon or, in case of oral stories, provide the leeway of Deus ex Machina to the narrator. The measure of whether or not it is worth taking them all (or any) at face value is a personal one, based on a person's own perspective, and just how much of a romantic said person is.

2. -*- I'm afraid, I don't quite catch your meaning, but as far as sources are, one must be very careful. I have never found reliable information concernin this subject on the internet. However, I have studied synchronicity (the interconnected-ness of all things, to which Tarot cards falling accurately is attributed; a good soothsayer is indeed a very real thing) to a fair extant, and have yet to see it truely disproven. On the contrary, I've seen success in these fields quite often when the person reading the cards is knowledgable on the subject, and not a rookie newb.

3. It really doesn't matter to me. I think there are emotions, thoughts, and dimensions in the human mind that are something almost like magic, and as long as I have that, it really doesn't matter much to be. I'm to busy romancing the subconscious.
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