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Leknaat skipped a beat
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mumbay

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I thought that Luc said something that her rune can do nothing to stop him and such. Leknaat tried to stop him in her point of view but failed. And that was when he said your rune can not stop mine.

And i thought it she wasn't capable of doing anything since Her rune was stopped by Luc's full rune since Leknaat only had half a rune unless it somehow became whole again.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well she'd need to find Windy or the current bearer of the other half of the Gate Rune, which is unlikely to be able to match the power of another full True Rune.

Last edited by Ujitsuna on Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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mumbay

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

And she obviously doesn't have it. She was barred into her tower by the power of the True Wind Rune why i didn't say this before i do not know.

I'll do my best to state what happened in the begining of the 6th point of view

Leknaat says that Luc should not go he can not change the wheel of history and stuff along that line. Luc goes, how do you know if you do not try. Leknaat trys to use her rune from what i saw to stop him. Then Luc uses his True Wind Rune which ended up causing Leknaat to be locked in her tower from what i under stood.

If she wasn't locked in then she felt she was not able to interfere that is all that i saw
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

She doesn't get "locked up" in the tower, she just chooses to stay there as she knows Luc's quest is futile.
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FabledHero




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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Like others have said you could argue the Luc factor, and that is a pretty good argument. I think she was torn between interfering with Luc due to personal reasons. Though I assume even so, she still knew the outcome, otherwise her feeling of duty towards the world would overtake her personal feelings for Luc (I think).
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Drago

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Maybe she agreed with Luc's quest to destroy the true runes so she decided not to get involved or maybe she was a prisoner of Luc because he noticed she always invovled herself when a true rune appeared. So if he did that he wouldn't have to worry to much about facing someone he knew could stop him.
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, for one thing, Leknaat is the "Keeper of Balance." In the suikoden world, the "forces of order" seems to be stronger in general, so Leknaat tends to help the "forces of chaos" more often.

You can see this in Suikoden 2 where she helps a rebellion, and aids the hero to counter the fate imposed upon him by the souleater-- likely a true rune belonging to the forces of chaos. Similarly, in Suikoden 2, she sides with Riou, who owned the Bright Shield half of the Rune of the Beginning. The shield half being aligned with chaos, she's again siding with chaos.

In Suikoden 4, she has a strange role in that she confronts the Fog Ship Captain, who says that he wishes to make revenge against chaos. Leknaat tells him that's not his role, and he gets sent back to his world. This also shows how Leknaat is on the side of tilting the balance towards chaos. She also guides the hero towards gaining mastery over the Rune of Punishment, which is another "chaos rune."

Suikoden 5 showcases the Sun Rune, which seems to be a chaos rune based on it's characteristics. It can destroy things very well, and at the same time bring nurturing light. Leknaat again guides the hero towards bringing out the "nurturing" side of the Sun Rune out.

In a way, Leknaat seems to be trying to bring out the "good side" of each of these chaos runes. , instead of their "bad side." As most of you know, each true rune has two aspects. Souleater has it's two sides as the bringer of life and death. The rune of the beginning as the "judge", causes and ends wars. The rune of punishment is both punisher and forgiver, and the sun rune provides both all-burning heat and nurturing warmth. These are aspects of "good" and "bad" chaos.

In the case of Suikodne 3, things are a bit complicated, because Luc is clearly on the side of chaos, but his methodology leans towards "bad chaos." The heroes are actually fighting for the side of "order (dharma)" by preserving the status quo of the five elemental runes. There's no "good chaos" in the equation, which may be why Leknaat didn't interfere-- there was nobody she could have aided. Also, the ambiguity of the elemental true rune's order/chaos allegiance makes it harder to hypothesize which side is exactly order or chaos.

Luc's methodology of using "bad chaos" such as the destructive powers of his true wind rune to forcefully execute his will, and also by allying with "bad chaos" creatures such as Yuber, probably didn't sit well with Leknaat. However, she's too weak to stop Luc due to her half-rune, and if she did interfere, Luc will likely stop her in some way. Along with that, the forces fighting against Luc are forces of "order," so she didn't have any real reason to help them, either. These seem to lead to her decision to simply watch, because to her the end result was clear from the start-- without her "guiding," the side of chaos will always lose in the end, anyways.
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Admiral Ackbar

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

And where has it ever been stated that certain True Runes are aligned with chaos, and some with order? Some Japanese publication?

I seem to remember the whole "some True Runes are chaos, some are order" idea being a fan creation, not canon. Why are we accepting it as such? What proof do we have that certain True Runes are chaos and others are order?

Not to be an ass, but there's not one bit of canon that states any of it to be true.

If we're willing to go with fan-made theories, then here's mine: Leknaat is the ultimate villain of Suikoden, altering the course of history to her liking (her agenda has yet to be revealed). She didn't interfere with Luc because she agreed with his goal. She's an older version of Viki.

...its always possible that Leknaat simply looked into the future and saw that the Grasslands and Zexen didn't need any help to stop Luc, and that Luc was doomed to fail anyway, so she didn't lift a finger. Suikoden 3 saw five True Runes directly involved in the conflict, and with that many True Runes' wills being carried out, Leknaat may not have had any ground to stand on.
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Raww Le Klueze




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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
There's no "good chaos" in the equation, which may be why Leknaat didn't interfere-- there was nobody she could have aided. Also, the ambiguity of the elemental true rune's order/chaos allegiance makes it harder to hypothesize which side is exactly order or chaos.

However, the manga depicts Leknaat helping the Fire Hero. She at least was involved enough to deliver the Tablet of Promise personally, something she did not during the second war.

If the rest of your claim is true that would mean the True Fire Rune at least, and probably Water and Lightning too, are forces of Chaos.
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hrrrmm, the manga is on shaky ground as far as fanon goes, and has absolutely zero canon status according to Konami itself.
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Raww Le Klueze




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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Can hardly be true as half of what we consider known fact about the True Water Rune and it's seal comes from the manga.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Can I ask for a refresher on what True Water Rune information that is considered fact is from the manga and not the games? Suikoden III isn't my strongest point (no PAL release, y'see).
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In the case of the First Fire Bringer War, the Harmonian side was clearly the force of "order," in that they were trying to gather true runes for their use to further the "order agenda." Thus, the Flame Champion's side was probably the force of "chaos." Perhaps he was even "good chaos" despite the cataclysm he caused towards the end of the war.
Considering the fact that the True Fire Rune tends to have destructive properties (and also produces warmth, much like the sun rune), it probably leans towards chaos.

However, this is pretty much speculation.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think it's strongly implied that most of the events in Suikoden are a struggle between order and chaos.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yes, but it's which side is being represented by each force is the issue. Brings to mind to old Sword=Order and Shield=Chaos arguments.
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