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Beecham
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 Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I think it's not entirely unplausible to think that someone like Hallec might wear so little to prove he can. It's a matter of strength over nature. It seems... appropriate for a barbarian clan. As for Fu Su Lu, there's no real reason he couldn't've found said tiger in a more appropriate locale. Such as the Banner Pass ;) *runs!* |
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Milan Fiori
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not totally sure but I think there are different breeds of tigers, ones that live in the jungles like India and then types that live in colder climates like Siberia. Then there's the type that lives on different planets. Lets go Battle Cat! *hops on his green tiger and rides into the sunset*
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Sai Fujiwara
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Lord Shrew wrote: |
| Fool, you will learn to fear the vagueness, for it is so vague that you cannot even begin to comprehend its vagueness. It is beyond you! |
Ha ha, right... :roll:
As for the topography, I wouldn't imagine that it is TOTALLY rugged, but I'm sure that there would be some parts that wouldn't be friendly to the average traveller. Also, as I pointed out before, the characters we see are kinda' primitive in their nature, and hence somewhat nomadic. I don't think that they really represent the bulk of the people that live in the "Nameless Lands." Another thing I would refute is that there is no super-power nation there. I'm sure most of the nations that reside there would be relatively weak in comparison to Harmonia, Dunan, Toran, or even Zexen. If there were stronger nations and more stability there, I'm not sure Thomas would've been very eager to seek out his real father. As it appeared in Suikoden III, he really wasn't fond of the idea of meeting him, but that it seemed it was really his only choice since he didn't want to stay in the Nameless Lands. And from his appearence, it did look like Thomas was pretty well civilized, as well. The explination for this probably rests in the fact that there were lots of war and instability in the Nameless Lands. This is my theory on this, though I don't know of any other takers on that. :P
Climate-wise, it'd probably be a lot like Northern Europe. Possibly the northernmost regions would be really snowy, but aside from that, the weather would probably be mostly similar to the northern United States, and southern Canada, which is mostly temperate.
Hikusaak is almost CERTAINLY still alive, though it wouldn't appear that he does much of anything. The Harmonian general assembly seems to be rather greedy, so they'd be the ones who more than likely would be ordering an attack on any neighboring nations. However, if there WAS evidence of True Runes, you can be sure that the Harmonians would come knocking, but as of yet there hasn't been any official evidence of this... Of course, it's pretty logical to assume that there IS a True Rune lurking around somewhere. We'll just have to wait to see what it is.
As for the animals, I think it's safest to assume that the animal breeds in the Suikoden World are similar to our own. Of course, we don't have any bon-bons or fur-furs, or do-re-mi elves running around, either... :P
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Horned Loa
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| Deacon Sai wrote: |
| And well, a whole lot of open areas or forests, not to dissimilar to the Grasslands and Zexen Federation. I'm pretty positive that they wouldn't be filled with just a bunch of random barbarians fighting each other, in fact I think they're mostly just as civilized as Zexen, Dunan, or Toran. |
These are TWO of the points I would disagree with. For starters we have some idea that which shows that Nameless Lands are at least partially a mountainous region. The Northern Grassland area borders the Nameless Lands and this area has a mountain range going through it. If only a little bit runs through the Grasslands a huge chunk must go through the Nameless Lands since tall mountains stretch for miles (otherwise they would be hills).
As for the Barbarism and Civilizations I'd stick with my previous theory that at least one of the "Nameless Lands" is in fact very nomadic and savage in nature.
| Suikosource wrote: |
Hallec(Tensatu Star)
Origin: Nameless Lands
Position: Warrior
Events: Second Fire Bringer War
Hallec is a barbarian from the north whose extremely loud war cries and skill with broad axes makes him a formidable fighter. He wears a bear skin on his head. In the past, his village was involved in a tribal dispute that was solved by the Flame Champion, so he was grateful. He then came from the north to meet the Flame Champion. After the Second Fire Bringer War, he went back north to his village to help it with Tuta and others. |
http://www.suikosource.com/images/chars/h/hallec01.jpg
| Suikosource wrote: |
Hanna(Tensatu Star)
Origin: Nameless Lands
Position: Warrior
Events: Dunan Unification War
Hanna is a warrior form the Nameless Lands. Not much is known about her other than the fact that she likes to eat meat and that she likes children. She joined the Hero during the Dunan Unification War after Toto was sacked by Luca Blight's White Wolf Army. |
http://www.suikosource.com/images/chars/h/hanna01.gif
The pictures of these two say it all not to mention that under Hallec's profile it says he is a Barbarian and that there is a VIALLAGE where he comes from (a village of Barbarians). Hanah's profile states that she is a "warrior" even though she appears barbaric. She could be from the same village as Hallec or from a totally different community but this shows that there is some sort of Barbarian life forms in the Nameless Lands.
The fact that Boris studied up there shows us that there are cultured nations too. By what it seems the nations up there are of relatively small size, more like communities but they differ a lot.
| Deacon Sai wrote: |
| I bet they're lurking around, but Barbarians by nature like to roam around a lot, so it's only natural that this is how the Nameless Lands have been represented thus far in Suikoden. |
Just because a race is considered barbaric does NOT mean they roam around. By dictionary meaning a barbaric race is one which is considered to have a primitive civilization by another. They are also often fierce and brutal physical fighters due to their underdeveloped hunting techniques and lack of tactical maneuvers. Travel if anything makes them smarter and more experienced.
| Deacon Sai wrote: |
| All I'm certain of is that there is NO central government in the Nameless Lands... As things stand now, they're just mostly cannon fodder for future Harmonian conquests (and no, I'm NOT talking about the battle system on this board...) :P |
Unless there are true runes within the Nameless Lands or another resource that would benefit Harmonia, I doubt they would venture in that direction as they apparently never attacked the City-State (asides from helping Harmonian forces out during the Dunan Unification Wars) even though the Scarlet Moon Empire was part of their empire at one stage. It seems Harmonia only goes after places they can gain something from, such as the True Runes for example.
| Deacon Sai wrote: |
| Oh, and as for Kamaro, they're more like in the middle between Nameless Lands and Grasslands. I guess they fit BETTER in the Nameless Lands, since they're north of Zexen, and they're not one of the Six Clans, but that's my opinion. |
Camaro has been stated to be a part of GRASSLANDS even though it is VERY close to the border of Nameless Lands. It is in fact a completely separate nation.
| Suikosource wrote: |
Camaro
Camaro is a small nation governed by the Free Knights of Camaro. They have a healthy relationship with the Matilda Knights, and often send their young members to Matilda for extra training. Camaro maintains an interesting position within the Grasslands due to its lack of relations to the Six Clans. Camaro is considered by many to be more "civilized" than the members of the Six Clans. |
| Shrew wrote: |
| Well, really the Nameless Lands seem like laziness on the part of the creators. It seems like a catch-all that they can use to justify anything. "Oh hey, where should this character come from?" "I don't know, throw him in the Nameless Lands". Because it so undefined anything can come from there, be it a bunch of barbarians, or maybe even some random super nation that no one has ever heard about. |
I'd say all the lands including Nameless Lands, Falena and Harmonia have been WELL thought out since if you really take all the information you have and gather it in one place, it is possible to get a somewhat visible picture of what that nation should look like. Of course if it ends up looking nothing like it, or if those assumptions turn to fanfic it is either the fault of the makers or the fans making the assumptions, however if we stick to the facts and draw conclusions based on logical decisions we might find that the Nameless Lands aren't as vague as they at first appear to be.
| Shrew wrote: |
| With so many toughened people like Hallec and Hanna it seems to imply that the landscape is rough itself. It may nigh impossible for Harmonia to enter the lands due to treacherous mountains or swamps. Such difficult terrain would also explain why the nations are fractured, as travel and warfare may be made very difficult. |
Good point! Thats another thing I also realized. Nameless Lands probably have a cold climate. Konami for some reason likes to create characters with very little clothing ever since Jeane became popular on the internet haha, but the bear skin and the heavy fur clothing Hanna wears suggest that the northern regions are cold. I've also noticed most Harmonians show very little skin. They all seem to wear long sleeved shirts and pants rather than the ever so popular topless for guys and bra and short shorts or a mini-skirt for girls.
| Harukaze wrote: |
| Probably shouldn't be far off the mark, in places. TIL seems to be more equatorial, so TNL would be more polar.... I presume we can view the Suikoden world as an actual planet that is nice and round like it should be. |
If had this discussion with SARSadmin at some point and we've concluded that we really cannot assume anything here, because as of yet the east and the west do NOT meet, nor do the north and the south. This can mean that the suikoverse is actually FLAT, or a completely different shape than Earth has. We CAN assume that it is round like Earth but we've yet to be given a slightest piece of information that would hint at that. Until that piece of information is released I myself will keep an open mind about this.
| MIB wrote: |
| However Hallec does where a polar bear's skin so to say that the place is snowy and cold is justifiable. However tiger skins and other animal skins are found on some of the characters which is where I get the the the grassland type geogarphy from. |
:? Forgot to mention Fu Su Lu heh. Anyways, Tigers only live in parts of Asia but the climate would be both cold and hot. I'd say they prefer the cold due to their thick fur, especially Siberian Tigers. Mind you I also got the image of a dessert or more like a wasteland (not one of those sandy deserts but one of those dry Australian ones with cracks in the earth and all). As for now anything is possible and the Nameless Lands could extend for thousands of miles with a land surface containing wastelands, mountains and snowfields. We'll just have to wait on this one but I'm certain the area would be cold.....at least in the winter time.
| Milan Fiori wrote: |
| I'm not totally sure but I think there are different breeds of tigers, ones that live in the jungles like India and then types that live in colder climates like Siberia. Then there's the type that lives on different planets. Lets go Battle Cat! *hops on his green tiger and rides into the sunset* |
HAHA You legend! Props up on the He-Man quote. I'm hopping its the ORIGINAL Battle Cat. There are more types of tigers and white Tigers are living proof of that. Apparently cats hate water yet I've seen so many programs with Tigers going for a swim. I think they need to cool off in the warmth of the jungles. I know they stay out of sunlight during the day.
| Deacon Sai wrote: |
| Also, as I pointed out before, the characters we see are kinda' primitive in their nature, and hence somewhat nomadic. I don't think that they really represent the bulk of the people that live in the "Nameless Lands." |
Well most of the ones we've seen up until now do, but then again your point could be right. Chances at are at the moment that a higher proportion of the Nameless Lands are barbaric. At least one or two tribes. I'd find it very surprising that Barbarians got to travel and civilized merchants that conduct regular trade stay in one place. Not to mention nobles wishing to see the world.....nobles with their own horses that is. :mrgreen:
| Deacon Sai wrote: |
| Another thing I would refute is that there is no super-power nation there. I'm sure most of the nations that reside there would be relatively weak in comparison to Harmonia, Dunan, Toran, or even Zexen. If there were stronger nations and more stability there, I'm not sure Thomas would've been very eager to seek out his real father. As it appeared in Suikoden III, he really wasn't fond of the idea of meeting him, but that it seemed it was really his only choice since he didn't want to stay in the Nameless Lands. And from his appearance, it did look like Thomas was pretty well civilized, as well. The explanation for this probably rests in the fact that there were lots of war and instability in the Nameless Lands. This is my theory on this, though I don't know of any other takers on that. :P |
This point seems to make sense but still is VERY arguable. I myself believe you are right in this assumption but I've little evidence to back this up as there could be a power struggle between two or more stronger nations with a bunch of smaller ones all around getting manipulated by the two super-powers. It could also result in a single superpower manipulating the smaller tribes for its own good. Nothing is certain yet and Konami can take this just about anywhere at this point but in short I personally do believe that there are many different races and smallish tribes, much like the Grasslands.
| Deacon Sai wrote: |
| Hikusaak is almost CERTAINLY still alive, though it wouldn't appear that he does much of anything. The Harmonian general assembly seems to be rather greedy, so they'd be the ones who more than likely would be ordering an attack on any neighboring nations. However, if there WAS evidence of True Runes, you can be sure that the Harmonians would come knocking, but as of yet there hasn't been any official evidence of this... Of course, it's pretty logical to assume that there IS a True Rune lurking around somewhere. We'll just have to wait to see what it is. |
The reasons why I believe Hikusaak is still alive is because Harmonia is STILL on the hunt for the True Runes. I could be wrong here but thus far we know he wanted them, or at least....Harmonia wanted them whilst under his personal rule.
I'd also like to add that I do believe there are other races in the Nameless Lands such as dwarves and other mountainous creatures like Harpies, Hawkmen and Dragons. I'm almost positive Dwarfs would live in one area but then again it is just speculation. I'm definitely eagerly awaiting a Suikoden within the Nameless Lands just as much as I'm waiting for one in Falena and one in Harmonia. |
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Starslasher
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:57 am Post subject: |
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Concerning Hallec and his skimpy clothing (no, no, Mr. Hallec! You dress very well! Please don't shout at me!), perhaps he dressed down to his lioncloth and polarbear hat when coming south, towards relatively warmer lands. The Crusaders had to change clothes, since the warm Mediterranean climate at Jerusalem made it stuffy in their armor and thick warm clothes.
| Sai Fujiwara wrote: |
| Climate-wise, it'd probably be a lot like Northern Europe. Possibly the northernmost regions would be really snowy, but aside from that, the weather would probably be mostly similar to the northern United States, and southern Canada, which is mostly temperate. |
hmm...i would have thought that it would have been more of a tundra/ winter desert climate, like Siberia, or Mongolia.
anything else to say about the Nameless Lands, i'm sure Black Fang summed it up in his elaborative post above me.
But there may be a superpower-nation in the Nameless Lands. Probably Camaro, since we know an inadequate amount about the place.
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Solitude
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Sai Fujiwara wrote: |
| Of course, we don't have any bon-bons or fur-furs, or do-re-mi elves running around, either... :P |
Grrr I hate those stupid Do-Re-Mi Elves.
Yeah I always pictured them as the dryed out cracked desert as well Black Fang. |
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Shrew
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well, when I talk about a super nation in the Nameless Lands, I just mean that anything could be up there. I mean like some ancient nation that cut itself off from the world and doesn't show any signs of existence, perhaps even the Eternal City of the Sindar. You could have a situation akin to Tolkien's Doriath (I think) where his Sindar lived under the protection of a magic barrier. Or this superpower could be made inaccessible by climate or terrain. Of course, it would be difficult for a nation to flourish in reality without interaction and trade, but this is a fantasy, so anything can happen.
And on the terrain, I picture a Nameless Lands that is nearly split in two. A mountainous region to the east and south that hinders trade and military expansion for both those outside and inside. Along the west by the sea would be areas where the civilized countries would flourish thanks to sea trade and better climate/land. But just how many of these nations could be supported is another question.
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Axiose
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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I always imagine the terrain of the nameless lands to be a dangerous and tropical place. Jungles and wildlife roam free. Yet there are places of trade, brick and education.
I believe, and hope, that there is a snowy mountainous terrain, which will probably end up being the divide between Harmonia and the Nameless Lands, but that probably wouldn't be snow covered.
However, about Babarian clans such as the village Hallec is from, I see them more closely resembling the village from Grandia II that the Beast Man (who's name escapes me) is from. Strong, powerful, yet philisophical and logical. A cliche, but that's just how I picture the village.
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Solitude
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Like someone said before (to lazy and to go back and see who) there could be just a bunch of independent clans. Some war with one another while others have peacful ties. They trade with other villages in the nameless lands and the independent villages either fall or flourish. I never really pictured there being a nation as a whole just smaller nations withing one but not necissarily a city-state. |
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Starslasher
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| Shrew wrote: |
| You could have a situation akin to Tolkien's Doriath (I think) where his Sindar lived under the protection of a magic barrier. Or this superpower could be made inaccessible by climate or terrain. Of course, it would be difficult for a nation to flourish in reality without interaction and trade, but this is a fantasy, so anything can happen. |
That reminds me. I was reaading the Silmarillion (long prequel of the LOTR trilogy), and came upon the Sindar Elves, an apparently extremely ancient, yet venerable race of Elves. Do you think that the Sindars in Suikoden would be related to these Sindar Elves, or was manifested from the Storywriter's mind originally?
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Axiose
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:34 am Post subject: |
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I remember when everyone first heard Sindar in the Suikoden series and rumours were flying everywhere that they were the same as Tolkein's Sindar.
Perhaps there is a connection, or perhaps there isn't. It would be hard for writers not to be influenced by Tolkein in modern days even if they don't realise they are influenced. But I don't know how popular LOTR is in Japan (if anyone can fill me in?) so I don't know if they just share the same name or if they have something else planned for them akin to Tolkein's Sindar.
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