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What's the second most powerful nation in the suikoden world?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:22 am    Post subject: What's the second most powerful nation in the suikoden world Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

well we all know the most powerful nation in the world is harmonia. Now the qustion is "who is the next most powerful nation in the suikoden world?" And can this second most powerful country stand up to harmonia might?
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uwangski

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think in Suikoden III, it was said that Albert Silverberg went to work for a powerful nation in the west continent. Of course, other than that, no information was given.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hah, that's a good point - we don't know of the other nations in the world. That kinda ruins the thread though.

Out of the ones we've seen, I'd have to say... huh, it would be Toran, wouldn't it? Everything but Harmonia is pretty well balanced. Dunan suffered through a civil war, so there were enough casualties to put them down quite a bit. They also did not retain enough of their exceptional generals the way Toran did. Grasslands and Zexen I really don't see as being led well enough to actually be threatening nations, and its doubtful if the Nameless Lands have any government at all. INF we haven't seen any of for a few hundred years, so its hard to say there.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If we exclude information from Suikoden V, then it probably is the Toran Republic, due the fact they've had more time to recover and stabilise since their civil war and retain valuable regiments such as the Dragon Knights where as the Dunan Republic only has the elite but not so powerful Matilda Knights and has also lost Tinto. The addition of Highland however makes it a major power once it's able to get stability, and stay safe from Harmonia.

The Island Nations have unified but are still just small island states, but also have the addition of Razril, and maybe the Razril knights as well, theres not really anything particularly important else where in the islands. Since Gaien is no longer involving itself in international affairs and no one knows anything about Zelant or this western power, so they can't technically count either.

The Grassland has spirit but it's basically just a bunch of families that can't work that well with eachother, although having ducks and lizards makes for some interesting battles, remember the lizard's attack on Iksay Village? Good lord that was frightening. The Zexen Confederacy is just a wannabe country, although having the Zexen knights on their side is a good addition, thats about all they have though, especially since their country is all about commerce and money, and with that comes alot of corruption and weakness. The Tinto republic seems to have become alot more powerful grabbing alot of The Grassland, but is alone, and has no particular strengthes, and those mines wont produce gold forever.

So to be honest, they're all about even, maybe the Toran and Dunan republics above the Suikoden III and IV territories, but I still think they've all been made quite blurry in that part to be compared to Harmonia.
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Lonelion

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That's a tough call on who the 2nd most powerful nation behind Harmonia is right now,it will be a close one between Toran,and Dunan.

As for Island Nations,they've must stronger now than when their federation formed,who knows what's on the western continent there likely a powerful country or a couple of them.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Falena was the front runner based purely on speculation pre-Suikoden V. Post-Suikoden V, without giving away spoilers and only including countries mentioned by name in the series and taking the year 478 as my basis... hmmm....

Dunan Republic would be my guess. Narrowly over Falena itself, given the 28 years of recovery it'd no doubt have since the end of Suikoden V. I've never been impressed by the Toran Republic, they could barely repel fractured city-state forces plauged with infighting.
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Lonelion

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That's True,but maybe Lepant has made them a stronger nation since that time,i never mentioned the first nation you mentioned for ovious reasons but they're a good choice for number 2.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

He may have stabilised the nation politically, but I see nothing to suggest he managed to do anything about the military. He could only muster 5,000 men to send to Dunan for the war effort.

Meanwhile, Dunan has the forces of Jowston, which were a match for Toran even when all they could was squabble as well as remnants of the Highland Kingdom.

I'd putting Dunan as a distant second, however.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Dunan Republic lost Tinto, however, which would be a large blow to that nation's military considering Tinto was able to stand up a military with the capability of taking on both Grassland and Zexen. It also was one of only two City-States that wasn't occupied at some point by Highland during the Dunan Unification War, and with South Window was able to temporarily occupy part of Toran during the end of the Gate Rune War.

For my money, I'd go with Falena.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Scarlet Moon Empire and the Toran Republic are two totally different countries. Not to mention that the time they could barely hold off those fractured city-states was towrds Scarlet Moon's downfall when they had already lost most of their forces.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No, when they were fractured, they couldn't hold them off period. It did however, take two years for the Toran Republic to push arguing Tinto and South Window forces out of Senan.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Of course, they had to focus on stablizing the land they did have before trying to reclaim the land that was taken from them.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I wonder how much the army and generals of the Toran Republic were unable to fight effectively against the Jowston forces for two years when we all know support for the Republic was absurdly high thanks to Scarlet Moon's muck-ups.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't think the efforts of a nation that just went through a civil war can really be measured that well. By that time, the political climate for going to war would be very low, especially after a Civil War. After all, the last civil war (the War of Succession) had forced Barbarossa to burn down Kalekka so they could get support to take on Jowston. I imagine most people didn't care if Jowston had a big bloody empty desert. Besides, Jowston had a legitimate claim on the area, since it was Mathiu's strategy that got them there.

That said, one thing Toran has against it is it has so much land, but not all of it with viable recruits. The Warrior's Village, Dragon Knights (and likely) the Great Forest would only be allies if the enemy reached Toran ground. Fighting an offensive war, they'd probably be unlikely to get involved.

Dunan may have lost Tinto, but they did gain Highland which is a significant addition if you consider that Highland was more than a match for any of Jowston's individual armies. That's only if you can get them to fight, however. In a battle, especially against Harmonia, maintaining their loyalty would be quite a feat.

Zexen, Tinto, Grasslands, and Island Federation... not much to say their as independant nations. In a war against Harmonia, you'd definitely want them as allies.

Just given the sheer size of Falena, it would make for the second more powerful nation, I think.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I wouldn't be surprised if the second most-powerful country turned out to be relatively unknown like Zelant. Still, for the time being, I'll choose Falena.
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