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Will the Grasslands be able to continue on for long?
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Maiazuru




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:46 pm    Post subject: Will the Grasslands be able to continue on for long? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

With the Zexen Federation growing stronger in the West, Harmonia bloodied but in no way weak in the Northeast, Dunan in the central eastern parts Tinto gobbling up lands in the southeast, what will the grasslands do? The nations around them are getting stronger and more ambitious... :(

PS: How come I have so few soldiers? :evil:


Last edited by Maiazuru on Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

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PS: How come I have so few soldiers?


I have no idea. Likely they were deducted for some reason - did you not recieve a PM explaining anything? I would ask you Nation Leader, Gaara.

To answer your question; Zexen and Grasslands, while probably never the best of friends as Nations go, at the end of Suikoden III have come to a mutual understanding. Leaving each culture to live their own way peacefully. Whilst future generations may grow to dislike their neighbours, that can be said for any nation at any time in the future. I'd say that Tinto are more friendly towards Grasslands after the second Fire Bringer than ever. After all, the Presidents daughter took part and gained military support.

Strength wise, I don't think Grasslands are particuarly weak either. When their clans unite, they have an army to be reconned with. And as Zexen and Tinto (Zexen more than Tinto) are "Allies", then they would also lend military support when needed. Don't forget that Grasslanders morale would be fairly high after just winning a large scale war, that would have caused their total destruction, making peace with Zexen, and now having a living breathing Flame Champion around - I wouldn't imagine Grasslands are very downhearted. I cannot remeber what happened to Le Beque after Suikoden III - did they become their own clan in Grasslands, or stay a part of Harmonia?

Harmonia are a funny business anyway. They would likely attack Grasslands again if they felt profit from them. And there is always the True Fire and Water Rune within Grasslands (I won't count Geddoe, as he would be localised in Caleria). But Grasslands have repelled two invasions from Harmonia now, and likely could do so again if their armies joined together. My personal opinion is that Sasarai would not want to attack Grasslands after Thomas and Cecile continually protected him from Luc in Luc's Chapter. Nothing was ever stated at that moment, but it looked to me as if Sasarai was very greatful.

Mentioning Thomas; Budehuc Castle is also perfect place between Zexen and Grasslands to but alot of their differing cultures aside. Thomas made the castle thrive with it's free-trade laws, and the shop owners have no quarms for who they serve - as generations go on, citizens of both Zexen and Grasslands will share a common bond. Especially as Hugo and Chris are on friendly terms by the end of the game.

To me, at the end of Suikoden III, Grasslands was strong, and only getting stronger.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Fliktor"]
Quote:

My personal opinion is that Sasarai would not want to attack Grasslands after Thomas and Cecile continually protected him from Luc in Luc's Chapter. Nothing was ever stated at that moment, but it looked to me as if Sasarai was very greatful.


Yes, but does Sasarai call the shots?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No, but he'd certainly be a large influencing factor.
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Maiazuru




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It won't work that way. Zexen will probably recommence its attacks against the Grasslands within a decade. Given that President Pendragon didn't join Dunan despite all the help its heroes gave, I see him making a deal with Zexen a few years after the Zexen-Tinto war.

Actually, that would probably be the thing which stops the war. Now, they'd probably be able to get Dunan in on this, and perhaps Toran just a little bit. Against all that, the Grasslands won't stand a chance.

To me, the Grasslands will fall. Its just a matter of when.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Grasslands already showed that when forced into a tight spot they will unite their efforts under a single banner. As long as Hugo remains the Flame Champion (if he is indeed the official one), I think he will be the bridge between the nations in the Grasslands.

-Tinto might rethink it's conquest now that Lilly helped out (she brought Tinto soldiers to Brass Castle). I think they might hold off for now.
-Dunan doesn't have any reason to attack the Grasslands, they're just as hard to unite (if not harder because of the politics).
-Harmonia might stay neutral for the time being. Sasarai is the closest thing to the leader of the nation, but there could be other Bishops that the game does not reveal who could also be pulling strings.

Basically, Grasslands is pretty safe considering the other nations are in either a similar position or in a neutral position at the time. The only threat to the Grasslands remains The Zexen Federation, but I'm not sure how violent it would get with Hugo and Chris as the two main figures of either army.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

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Dunan doesn't have any reason to attack the Grasslands, they're just as hard to unite (if not harder because of the politics


Dunan would be one of the last countries to attack Grasslands. Teresa Wisemail is an allie of Lucia after the events of Suikoden II. Also after Suikoden III, Lucia herself becomes a emesary for Grasslands in Dunan, so I doubt they will attack Grasslands.

Toran would have no reason to invade and destroy another nation. Lepant is not the sort of leader to annihilate another nation just because he was asked to. I sincerely doubt he would appoint someone to take over from him who would do something like that either.

As you said, Tinto and Zexen have had a fair few battles, so I doubt they'd just join up together to fight against Grasslands.

Like Nutflush said before, I think Grasslands will be fairly safe. The Zexen Confederacy would not be attacking Grasslands either for another reason due to Chris. She discovered her father was hiding and being hidden in the Karaya clan - I doubt she'd want to attack Grasslands after that.

In the Suikoden world as a whole, there's no certainties though. Toran Republic could easily come under attack from another nation and be defeated. As could Dunan. Just because Grasslands appears to be unorganized and "barbaric" they have a lot of strength, and when united (as they are with Hugo as the Flame Champion) they would not simply be destroyed.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well I'll agree that the Grasslands aren't in any particular trouble at the moment but they are FAR from growing stronger!!! Things aren't always just black and white even though it can seem that way. The grasslands themselves are always in danger of internal conflict just like the City-State and they themselves are their biggest threat. It doesn't take too long after a large scale war for thieves and thugs to go back to their old ways. Some war thirsty veterans might think they have outlived their usefulness and turn to violent robbery as an easy means of living. It happened throughout history and its bound to keep on happening. Robbing a noble could cause a vendetta which could lead to fights and possibly smaller scale wars......BUT, putting that aside.....

I'd say right now their biggest threat would be....well in my opinion still Harmonia. The nation is in disarray and Sasarai might be grateful and influential but bare in mind that they do have a military force MUCH greater then both Grasslands and Zexen combined as well as some VERY corrupt priests, bishops and aristocrats. I wouldn't be surprised if some members of the temple attacked another clan without the approval of those above them in rank.

The other potential threat could be the Nameless Lands. Not much is known except that a few fine warriors came from those regions, which leads ME to believe that they are either a war torn or a war thirsty nation. If the latter is true, than the Grasslands really do have something to worry about. As long as Chris and Hugo remain the bearers of the True Runes they won't age and Grasslands will have peace with Zexen, but should they die, there is nothing to really stop the two from going at one another yet again.

I don't see the Grasslands as a weakening nation; I just don't think they're getting stronger neither. They are just living and rebuilding what was destroyed....but then again, so are the other nations.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

IIRC, didn't the Grasslands and Zexen forces still fight after the war? I'm SURE that it was mentioned in Chris' ending somewhere...
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

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4) Zexen-Tinto War (4th Grassland War)
Duration: 478 (1 year)
Participating Nations: Zexen, Grassland Clans, Tinto
Happening five years after the Second Fire Bringer War, the Zexen-Tinto War started with a border skirmish between Tinto and Zexen forces. The skirmish led to a war which gradually included the Grassland Clans, namely the Lizard Clan.


Grasslands were neither the target nor the invader. The fight was actually between Zexen and Tinto, but eventually included the Grasslands either because of alliances (Grasslands & Zexen or Grasslands & Tinto) or because of fatalities of Grasslands clans caused by either Tinto or Zexen.

Let's not forget that after Suikoden I, the newly formed Toran Republic had battles against the South Window forces to stop further invasion and to reclaim the Senan area that was lost in the Gate Rune Wars. Dunan also had to quell the Higheast Rebellion even after they had defeated the Highland Kingdom.

Grasslands may never have an end to skirmishes between Tinto and Zexen. But that would not make their land any more easy to defeat. Don't forget, Grasslands and Zexen have stopped an invasion by Harmonia twice now. They would not go down without a fight.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm still working on Suikoden 3 and haven't played 4 yet, for me, it's Dunan all the way! I have little knowledge on the content of this post but I would say that Xexen and Tinto will continue to fight, Harmonia will watch, and the Grasslands will stay united.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You know, this is one of the main reasons that I hope the next Suikoden (if there is one) will take place not long after the events of S3. There were just too many unanswered questions after S3 ended (even for a Suikoden game!).

There are many possibilities, but I speculate that as long as Hugo continues to bear the True Fire Rune, and as long as Chris remains the captain of the Zexen Knights, there won't be any major battles fought between Zexen and the Grasslands, except maybe a few border skirmishes here and there. Of course it's entirely possible for a border skirmish to escalate into something bigger, I don't think Chris or Hugo would let it happen.

As Fliktor mentioned, Teresa Wisemail and Lucia are allies, and Lucia herself became an emissary for the Grasslands in Dunan after the events of S3. That leads me to believe that Dunan won't try anything against the Grasslands. Dunan has enough problems keeping themselves united let alone worry about completely dominating another nation for no particular reason whatsoever.

As for the Toran Republic, I doubt Lepant would start a war with the Grasslands. It may be possible, but we really don't have any idea how the two nations feel about each other. This is probably due to the considerable distance they are from each other. I can't see any real reason Lepant would have for attacking them. He's not that kind of guy, anyways. Although I do wonder who will take Lepant's place once his role as president eventually comes to an end. Wouldn't it be something if Sheena ended up becoming president! :lol:

I don't think Tinto would even stand a chance against the Grasslands unless they allied themselves with someone. Toran most likely wouldn't help them, and I'd think that Dunan would be hesitant to help Tinto with anything after how they snubbed them after S2. Zexen and Tinto are such bitter enemies I'd be very surprised if they allied with each other.

Harmonia, well, that's something to consider. I wouldn't think Harmonia would be too quick to attack Grasslands after how much Luc and the destroyers damaged them in S3. But, if Harmonia entered into an alliance with Tinto, they could attack the grasslands from east and south, making things particularly harder for Hugo. Chris would probably send the knights to help Hugo, but if the Grasslands WERE defeated, Harmonia would likely help Tinto go after Zexen. Tinto helps Harmonia deal with the Grasslands, and helps them regain some of their lost pride. Afterwards, Harmonia helps Tinto take over Zexen, their bitter enemies, for assisting them. Interesting...
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

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Harmonia, well, that's something to consider. I wouldn't think Harmonia would be too quick to attack Grasslands after how much Luc and the destroyers damaged them in S3. But, if Harmonia entered into an alliance with Tinto, they could attack the grasslands from east and south, making things particularly harder for Hugo. Chris would probably send the knights to help Hugo, but if the Grasslands WERE defeated, Harmonia would likely help Tinto go after Zexen. Tinto helps Harmonia deal with the Grasslands, and helps them regain some of their lost pride. Afterwards, Harmonia helps Tinto take over Zexen, their bitter enemies, for assisting them. Interesting...


That's a very scary possiblity. But you'd have to look at the ramifications of that. Harmonia has never been one to sit by and watch while a war that could threaten them is going on (look at how they attacked Dunan in Suikoden 2) And if Tinto were to take the Zexen area while Harmonia took the grasslands, you'd be looking at two hungry nations as neighbors. How long do you think an alliance between those two would last with the Grassland area of Harmonia seperated from the capital by a mountain range, and the Zexen area of Tinto so far away frmo their capital. You'd have two weakened areas of oppresive nations sitting right next to one another. One slip up could lead to all out war between Harmonia and Tinto (never thought you'd hear that one did you?) and with Tinto taken out, Harmonia would be sitting pretty right next to Dunan and Toran. (Future Suikoden plot? *Shoots self for trying to guess ahead*)

Anyway, onto the matter at hand, here's my "two cents". The Grasslands have nothing to fear frmo Zexen. The way it appears to me, Chris and Hugo would never allow a war between the two to break out. If anything, they would more likely join to become a new nation, creating another powerful force on the continent.

The Nameless Lands are the biggest variable in this situation. Very little is known about the Nameless lands, but from what we've seen, if you mess with the Nameless lands you're going to get hurt. This would explain why Harmonia has never made a move to capitalize on their position, and probable weakness of alliance. It is likely that the Nameless lands are a force that, while not able to combat Harmonia outright, would be more trouble than it was worth. Based on the territory that Harmonia would gain from invading the Nameless lands succesfully, they'd have to cause quite a detriment to the Harmonian ranks to make it so that there would be no gain from defeating them. If the Nameless lands were to join forces with the Grasslands in any assault, it would most likely be a rather formidable force. Now if that "new Nation" idea between Zexen and the Grasslands came to pass, imagine the power they could gain from recruiting the Namless lands as well.

While this is all very interesting, it doesn't answer the question "Are the Grasslands safe?" In my opinion yes, if anyone were to declare war on them it would be either Harmonia or Tinto. Tinto would have to pass through Zexen to even REACH the Grasslands, so that's pretty much out. And after suffering two defeats at the hands of the "barbarians", I doubt the Holy Kingdom would be eager to go another round with them (especially with the Flame champion readily apparent, and the possible backing of the Nameless lands and Zexen.)

Toran and Dunan should be left out of this conversation completely, neither of them pose a threat to anyone in the area (except possibly Tinto, and even then it would only be the VERY unlikely chance of Dunan. And with Teresa in charge, that is truly a VEEEEEEEEERY unlikely chance.)
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Beethoven4567

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well in my opinion in the future the Grasslanders would probably form an alliance with Zexen to counter Tinto's rapid encroachment on Grassland and Zexen territory, thus we will see a possible conflict between a Grassland-Zexen alliance and a Harmonia-Tinto alliance.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Where has it said that Tinto has a rapid encroachment on Grassland and Zexen territory? They had a large skirmish with Zexen which steadily included the Grasslands, but I see Zexen as the target, not Grasslands. I don't see a single peice of evidence suggesting as to why Harmonia and Tinto would make an alligance. Tinto and Grasslands fought against Harmonia. Zexen and Tinto aren't exactly firm friends, but I see no reason for Tinto to invade Grasslands.
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