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How to Survive a Zombie Epidemic.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ok, about the skull. It is known that the cranium is one of the toughest bone in a human body. It has to be since it protects one of the most important organs in a human body. The femur is still considered the toughest and strongest bone due to its lenght and mass. With the skull being as tough as it is the only way to truly open it up and damage the brain inside is through sheer blunt trauma. Sure, blades have been known to crack a skull open but one has to exert so much force for the sharpened edge to crack and slice through the cranium. Blunt weapons can cover more space upon impact due to its design.

Both weapons have their disadvantages when used against zombies but I myself would stay away from larger blded weapons like swords, katanas and the like. Now, if I was adept in using them then that would mean I would know exactly how they should be used, but I can count on no fingers the amount of people I know who actually is an expert in swordfighting. I still would take a sharpened machete in addition to something blunt with weight behind it like a hand-sized sledgehammer (which is pretty much a modern-day mace)

As for firearms, unless you intend to fight instead of avoid zombies then go for a weapon that will be easy to clean and maintain. Better yet, a firearm that uses a caliber of ammunition that's easy to find (.22 cal LR, 30-06, and .30 caliber). In such a world ammunition will not just be scarce but manufacturing of more of them will be almost non-existent. It's true that a shotgun will be of use in an enclosed space where their scatter-effect will hit the most targets, but it's the head that needs to be destroyed and it's not a guarantee that shotgun pellets that has spread out too wide from its original tight grouping will destroy a zombie's head. It may pepper the group in front but even then only one or two may fall permanently. Then there's the problem of the noise a shotgun will make. Kill ten zombies with a fully-loaded combat shotgun, but what about the hundred or so right behind them and the other hundred making a beeline in your direction after hearing the shotgun blasts.

The main thing --- really the only thing --- that people should concentrate on in a world in the midst of a major worldwide zombie outbreak is survive through evasion, avoidance, escape and, only as a last resort, resistance. There's not enough advanced weaponry now, outside of the nuclear weapons still active, that will kill all the zombies in a nation, or even in a county. By avoiding areas that used to have a high concetration of people pre-outbreak, one's chances of survival increases. By standing one's ground, or always trying to kill zombies at every opportunity, an individual only hastens their death and in the end adds to the enemy's growing number. Such a world heroes are not needed.
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Sparhawk

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Tullaryx wrote:

As for firearms, unless you intend to fight instead of avoid zombies then go for a weapon that will be easy to clean and maintain. Better yet, a firearm that uses a caliber of ammunition that's easy to find (.22 cal LR, 30-06, and .30 caliber). In such a world ammunition will not just be scarce but manufacturing of more of them will be almost non-existent. It's true that a shotgun will be of use in an enclosed space where their scatter-effect will hit the most targets, but it's the head that needs to be destroyed and it's not a guarantee that shotgun pellets that has spread out too wide from its original tight grouping will destroy a zombie's head. It may pepper the group in front but even then only one or two may fall permanently. Then there's the problem of the noise a shotgun will make. Kill ten zombies with a fully-loaded combat shotgun, but what about the hundred or so right behind them and the other hundred making a beeline in your direction after hearing the shotgun blasts.


The thing that I like about a shotgun is that it can shoot slugs or buckshot. Pop a scope on a shotgun and you have a weapon that can be used in melee situations, close up supression of the enemy, and still has the ability to reach out and touch somebody at a thousand yards.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

ADAM wrote:

The thing that I like about a shotgun is that it can shoot slugs or buckshot. Pop a scope on a shotgun and you have a weapon that can be used in melee situations, close up supression of the enemy, and still has the ability to reach out and touch somebody at a thousand yards.


I understand the appeal of it. Against other living humans it should be very efficient. Especially magnum slugs which could tear into a raider's motorcycle, car or truck. But a shotgun's load capacity is very low in comparison to other rifles that it becomes a real liability since you're bound to run out of ammo after just a minute or so of firing. The ammo is pretty large and would hinder you to carry large amounts of it and still move at a brisk pace.

I think the only ideal situation that a shotgun's advantages could be used to great effect is if you're already in a fortified location with a raised tower and/or wall to shoot down from. That I could see the shotgun with a load of 12-gauge do well against a tightly packed grouping of zombies just below your fortification's wall. Just aim down on their heads and shoot. Even then supply of shotgun shells would still be limited to what was looted, scavenged and/or acquired by other means prior to locking yourself in.

One other advantage a shotgun does have over all other firearms is when its time to end it all. Just wrap your mouth around the end of the barrel, bite down firmly and pull the trigger. No slight chance of the shot grazing around your skull to keep you alive. A blast of 12-gauge that point blank should end any chance of you coming back to join the horde that you've been trying to escape.
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Bub

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Maybe I don't know enough about guns, or shotguns for that matter, but I don't think that a shotgun is very precise at a thousand yards. I don't think shotguns are used to long range figthing. It is definately a close range powerhouse. So in you saying that you would put a scope on a shotgun...I just don't think that would work.

Tullaryx is right in that a shotgun would be a great weapon to use if you are in a confined area, with your threat being out in the open, with no other threats being able to get to you. In fact, that would be the only time I would use a shotgun. I wouldn't be running around with a shotgun on me because it is too bulky, as is the ammunition (as I think Tullaryx said as well), and people who are not experienced with firearms would certainly have a hard time initially with a shotgun. This "hard time" can prove to be fatal for most people, as they don't know the "kick" a shotgun has.
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Sparhawk

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bub wrote:
Maybe I don't know enough about guns, or shotguns for that matter, but I don't think that a shotgun is very precise at a thousand yards. I don't think shotguns are used to long range figthing. It is definately a close range powerhouse. So in you saying that you would put a scope on a shotgun...I just don't think that would work.

Tullaryx is right in that a shotgun would be a great weapon to use if you are in a confined area, with your threat being out in the open, with no other threats being able to get to you. In fact, that would be the only time I would use a shotgun. I wouldn't be running around with a shotgun on me because it is too bulky, as is the ammunition (as I think Tullaryx said as well), and people who are not experienced with firearms would certainly have a hard time initially with a shotgun. This "hard time" can prove to be fatal for most people, as they don't know the "kick" a shotgun has.



You might want to try to tell someone else about the effectiveness of a shotgun with a scope since I got one on my Mossberg 500. Seriously, I have it sighted dead on at 200 yards and a 4 in. drop at 500 yards. I have messed around with it on a range and know what it's max potential is.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

IF you were magnum slugs then yes, putting a scope on a shotgun is feasible, but then again one slug to take out one zombie, or several if you're lucky enough to line up several heads. I can't say that I agree with your plans in how to survive, but since all plans posted here are conjectural and hypothetical, maybe you can survive. The question will be for how long. My own plans is based on surviving for as long as possible through evasion, avoidance and the minimizing the amount of encounters.

Loud shotgun blasts will just attract more to my position and, unlike living people who need rest, water and food, the things who will come after me are the opposite. They do not need to stop for rest and/or water. Their focused movement into one direction will draw others to it and follow. For where one goes the rest will follow. In due time they will catch up. And when they do I'll either have found a fortified safe haven trusting enough to allow me sanctuary, or I make a last stand and take as many of them as I can before blowing my brains out.

I think I'd rather be like the quiet and sneaky mouse than the tough and brave cat.
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Bub

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

200 yards and 500 yards aren't a thousand yards. Also, you may know how to shoot one, but the majority of the population couldn't. Also, you may be able to shoot something well from so and so yards away, but you are doing so with time and precision and no panic involved. Try laying down and setting up a good clean shot at a zombie 500 yards away from you (and, clearly not a threat) when you are moseying around anywhere with a population. Line up your shot. Make sure you are aiming at the head.

Then have a bunch of zombie biting off your arse. :D

You don't want to be all fancy sharpshooter when the dead rise. It may look cool, but that's about it. Make sure your general vicinity is safe before you start shooting ducks from hundreds of yards away. All you are doing is wasting ammunition that way anyways.
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Sparhawk

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

ADAM wrote:


The thing that I like about a shotgun is that it can shoot slugs or buckshot. Pop a scope on a shotgun and you have a weapon that can be used in melee situations, close up supression of the enemy, and still has the ability to reach out and touch somebody at a thousand yards.


That's why you have multiple kinds of amunition. Anyway, this is all based on the fact that I would be at MY house with MY gun and MY amunition.

Remember that I also stated this earlier:

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:01 am Post subject:

----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------

Zombies!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, I hope none of ya'll are taking any pointers from Shaun of the Dead...

What would I do?

A. Take my frickin' 12 and hunt wolverines, I mean zombies, yeah, zombies...

B. Pop myself in the head. I mean come on: What chance in hell would I have against wolver- I mean zombies.

C. Find a suitable corner, get into the fetal position and cry until it all ends.



(probably option C)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bah, I'm gonna concede defeat on the bladed weapons debate. Not that any of you convinced me about it, but I've recently seen an episode of Mythbusters where they pretty much tried to cut a head off using a lawnmower engine and razor sharp blades and failed to do so. The person would have died had he been hit but not decapitated and it wouldn't be hard for a zombie to survive a blow that could kill a normal human.

Timbo wrote:
So you are claiming that you have easily cut through a human skull with a sword?


Not with a sword it was a combat knife, though seeing that episode of Mythbusters make me wonder how in the hell I managed to cut that guys arm nearly off.
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Amyral

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

They've also done a Mythbusters where they tested whether a katana could decapitate a person's head and failed. There was also a test in that episode whether or not the impact of a bullet could fling a person back, and that was busted as well.

I've seen swords with surgical grade blades. They were so sharp that they would cut a flap of skin if you ran your finger across it. The problem is, the edge is brittle. Cutting through anything as hard as a bone would dull the blade quickly. ANd the equipment retired to maintain that blade is heavy, very specialized and difficult to use.

So yeah, a sword might be a more romantic thought, but unless the zombies turn into Uruk-hai, it's not likely to be useful at all. The katana even worse so, because it has no power once it goes dull, whereas even if a claymore or long sword goes dull, it's still relatively sturdy. The katana worked fine in Japan when they had no decent armor and no other significant option.

For melee weapons I'm carrying, heavy hammer or mace. Nothing fancy. Blunt force trauma will kill just as well as a point through the head, and it's much easier to get through the skull by crushing it. The only thing you have to worry about is fatigue.

For projectiles, at the beginning, I'm using everything with obscure ammo I can get. I'm not going to use the common ammo until I have to, because it's still limited. After I go through what's difficult to find, then I will use the lasting power.

Of course, I think whoever said explosions were spot on. And it's a well known fact that zombies hate fire, so it has two good effects. I'm making sure I have some Molotov cocktails in hand for zombies in groups. First off, fire can destroy muscle systems in under a minute. Secondly, zombies are primal creatures, operating only on themost basic instinct. That instinct includes "fire bad!" thus the zombies would run around like chickens with their heads cut off while their muscle systems are destroyed.
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Bub

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Of course, I think whoever said explosions were spot on. And it's a well known fact that zombies hate fire, so it has two good effects. I'm making sure I have some Molotov cocktails in hand for zombies in groups. First off, fire can destroy muscle systems in under a minute. Secondly, zombies are primal creatures, operating only on themost basic instinct. That instinct includes "fire bad!" thus the zombies would run around like chickens with their heads cut off while their muscle systems are destroyed.


Molotov cocktails would work wonders (as you can see in Night of the Living Dead, those buggers ran the 40 in four seconds flat when they saw fire :D ) , and are definitely a thing to have if you are finally in a confined, defensive spot, but I couldn't see myself lugging them around if I am on the move and I am trying to be covert and sneaky. That would require a lot of crouching and diving and hiding in small areas to get away from zombie hordes. I don't think that doing this would be wise if you have glass bottles of flammable liquid on you. It could easily break, causing you to get soaked in something you do not want to be soaked in. Furthermore, the glass can cut your skin, and whatever is in the bottle could enter the wound and cause some problems.

Plus it is just an odd shaped thing to carry. Where would you put them, where it is safe from breaking and easily accessible?

I do think that they are absolutely perfect for situations where you are held up somewhere and want to escape, or you just want to clean up the local area you are trying to take control of for a long term stay. They are very easy to make...all you need is a bottle and anything flammable and access to fire.

The only other thing I would say be careful about is to make sure that if the fire spreads, it does not put you in danger of escape, or further explosions or rapid fire growth. I wouldn't recommend hucking a few molotov cocktails into dry grass near your getaway vehicle, or if you are in a house made of wood, or if there is a gas tank anywhere near. This can prove to be quite dire and dangerous, and may be an even bigger problem than the zombies around you.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, my strategy, at least early on, has always been the defendable structure strategy, especially because there is a very choice option where I live (3 warehouse stores in a commercial zoned, smaller area. Not much residence nearby, comparatively, and there are other places that would be taken over/swarmed first, giving me time to set up. So the Molotov cocktail is ideal in that set up, because you can make a small supply and engulf the zombies if they get close together. And reducing their numbers is always something to shoot for.

But I think that situation is the ideal in defensible positions, and for those not fortifying or in a less than stellar option, then they lose their usefulness quickly. In my situation (barring some sort of idiotic move, but I count them out because the idiots would be more likely to run to somewhere else, like the shopping mall or hospital).

As for use, if I am on the run, my policy would be more along the lines of "throw them from a vehicle to clear a path." Their main use is crowd control, engulfing large groups and scattering the rest. In that regards, they are ideal for making sure a path is clear or clearing one youself. You have to be careful, sure, but they have quite a few upsides if you can have them. And anything that is easy to make, can clear out zombies and saves ammo earns a spot in my arsenal.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ok, it seems exotic and non-practical blades are the weapon of the moment. If I really had to choose a bladed weapon that wasn't a heavy-bladed machete or something similar then I would still avoid swords, Japanese, Chinese, European, etc... There's many a reason why I would avoid such bladed weapons. For starters, finding swords forged by a master blacksmith is very rare and unless one already owns such a weapon (and such swords are very expensive due to their rarity), then an individual will be gambling with their life since the weapon could fail and shatter at any time. I mean most of the authentic katanas in the world are in Japan and they're considered national treasures so trying to buy one from a Japanese owner would be nigh impossible to pull off.

Second, using one in a stressful situation (I think the fear of being devoured by walking corpses would be a stressful situation of all stressful situations) would need not just skill with a sword but one who can lose himself into utter calmness. It takes swordsmen years to achieve such a state and even then they can only do so for short periods of time. An individual will also need to have perfect technique to always decapitate with single strokes and not put too much stress on the blade. I've learned that it is possible for swords to cut through skin, muscle and bone with ease, but its not all due to the sharpness and forging of the blade. Proper technique combined with speed and optimal force contributes quite abit in such death strokes. Now how many here actually knows how to do it? I'm man enough to admit that I wouldn't know. I'll probably end up getting the sword stuck midway into a neck and leaving me up the creek with a paddle.

But getting back to exotic blades. If I had no choice but to pick a bladed weapon that wasn't a machete to pick up and use then it would be the heavy-bladed Kukri knives used by Nepalese Ghurkas. These things are not just heavy which would help in adding force into a blow, but the inward curve of the blade allows for decapitations with ease since the blade will slide across the surface to be cut when swung. I know that it's been documented by British historians and witnesses of Ghurka soldiers in the employ of the British military using the blades to remove heads of opposing soldiers with a single upward-angled stroke. A Kukri is really just a fancier version of the machete. Both can be used not just for fighting but also has utilitarian uses like clearing brush and saplings to create a path and cutting thick branches for kindling.

A Kukri would be the most exotic blade I can see myself owning and using in a zombie outbreak. But even if I did choose to have one the problem of finding one before such an event occurs is pretty slim. So, I'm back to using the good old machete to do my close in work when the need arises.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay, I also admit defeat on the katana part. It is indeed quite inefficient, and there a lots of better things to replace it. But bladed weapons are still of good use, considering how you use it. The heavy-blade with with wide surfaces like a broadsword, could still do a thing or two, and double function as a blunt weapon.

But blunt weapons to me is still a bad idea. A blunt strike won't always crack the skull, and the recoil if it fails from smashing the object adds to the fatigue of using it. Fatigue isn't good when you've got to run away. Whereas, a blade weapon might be able to distract or hold off the zombie, even if for a while. And considering that retaliation, if needed; would always only be a way to escape, then I've made my point. So in the end, maybe for a melee you'll need..... a bladed hammer, like Ultimate Thor's Mjolnir, maybe?

As for projectile weapons, I still don't agree on using a gun (Or any common handgun to be exact. A desert eagle might still work). It's not that easy to shoot a direct shot to the skull, even to put a hole into it, right? Killing a zombie with a gun needs at least a few shots, and each shot won't probably hit at the same spot. And the shots you miss, which may be the most of it; tend to hit the zombie's body, meaning that you've wasted your bullets. Now a shotgun on the other hand, although I do agree that it's not suitable for stealh sneaking and such, but when you come close to a zombie, aim for the head and pull the trigger, you find the
explosion of a zombie head, without the need for firing at a point blank range. And that's why I say it's a good choice. Another I might suggest are Crossbows. Arrows aren't that hard to make, are they? Substitute replacements like steel tubes are plentiful in a city. And with the stab effect, it might knock down or put on hold a zombie in reaction to the stab.

But again, I think we all agree here the best stationary weapon thing (And not to mention best effect from the use of it.) you could ever have are explosives, namely the Molotov kind.

And speaking of stationary, what would you say would be the best to use if you found a non-stationary weapon, or hard to move, like maybe a cannonball?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Unless it glows and was used a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, there's no way to make me think that a sword would be useful. Most you find today are for show only. They are easily breakable and not sharp. Finding a good sword would be a feat unto itself, and this coming from a guy who has access to a ready supply of bladed weapons.

A strong, blunt strike from a mace-like weapon should, at the very least, crack the skull. It may not penetrate, but if the first doesn't, a second strike will penetrate the skull and do brain damage. I have a pair of metal gauntlets in my kitchen. I'm sure they wouldn't penetrate, but I've seen the sheer force that gets unleashed from blunt weapons and have no problem believing that a heavy, metal hammer would crack the skull. Furthermore, you can also shatter knee caps (preventing mobility), arms (limiting range), and spines (having the same effect). Unless a person has a steel plate in their head or the head of the weapon isn't made of a strong, solid metal, than I don't see how cracking the skull would be up in the air.

I'm not an expert on firearms, but I'm pretty sure most caliber's on commonly available handguns can penetrate the skull on first shot, unless deflected. But I'll leave that to someone who knows soemthing about guns.

As for arrows, I do a bit of archery myself. Arrows aren't easy to make, at least not accurate ones. It takes a whole lot more than finding tubes to make arrows that fly straight, and there's no guarantee that a steel tube will even do so (most likely, they will drop like a rock once fired). If you actually find crossbow bolts, they have an advantage of being multi use, but most likely they will contort if they hit a solid target, like a bone. Having been hit with a crossbow blunt before, in general, they don't have great knock down capability apart from reeling from the pain (which it's generally accepted that a zombie wouldn't do). Granted, they do hurt, and an actual arrow head would have put me on the ground, but not from the blow. Add that do the fact that crossbows are slow to reload, so you get one shot before you have to run. Aiming also isn't as simple as it looks and bolts tend to drop significantly over longer distances.

As for cannonballs, by itself, the only real use would be to drop from above. If you had a cannon, you could do some damage, but it certainly wouldn't be efficient.
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