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Battle System in Suikoden VI: Change it or Keep it?
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Battle System in Suikoden VI: Change it or Keep it?
Change it
35%
 35%  [ 19 ]
Keep it
64%
 64%  [ 35 ]
Total Votes : 54

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Ryusei

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:33 am    Post subject: Battle System in Suikoden VI: Change it or Keep it? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Although I hate to admit it, Suikoden's battle system is one of its weak aspects.

Battles are so easy and almost need no strategy to finish. Most of the time, all you have to do to end the battle is to choose auto. Even bosses don't pose a challenge with the current battle system.

Also, many runes are imbalanced. There are some runes which are too overpowered while others are too useless to remember. The fury rune+double-strike rune+boost rune combo is a sure way to wipe the floor clean of opponents in Suikoden V. The higher tier magic runes, when paired with magic-enhancing runes such as magic drain runes or magic runes, make your mages very destructive. Meanwhile, runes such as the sleep rune, the turtle rune, the gozz rune and most command runes receive little credit due to their lack of usefulness in battle. The imbalance of such runes contribute to the weakness of the battle system.

I personally think the battle system has to get an overhaul. It has many inconsistencies which tilt the odds greatly into your side that it makes the game less challenging and the battle system boring. With the power of the PS3, maybe Konami could think of ideas to better improve the game's battle system. Konami already made a great improvement with the battle system in Suikoden III. But then again, they were not given the opportunity to refine that system because many fans disliked it.

I would just like to know what the opinions of people of Suikox on this matter are. Do you want to see an overhaul in the battle system for Suikoden VI? If yes, what methods do you think Konami would do to improve the battle system? And if not, why?

EDIT: I forgot to add the poll...


Last edited by Ryusei on Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No regular-RPG turn based battle system I have ever played has even had an element of strategy. Seriously. I just don't think regular RPG's are about strategy beyond the basic "Water beats Fire" elemental crap.

The only way to make the game harder is to increase enemy stats and HP. However, that just turns a battle into even more tedium.

People have been saying it for years, the traditional RPG system just doesn't transmit a sense of strategy, timing or skill.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Battle System in Suikoden VI: Change it or Keep it? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ryusei wrote:
Battles are so easy and almost need no strategy to finish. Most of the time, all you have to do to end the battle is to choose auto. Even bosses don't pose a challenge with the current battle system.

I wish I can auto-kill bosses with my team of DoReMi elves. Or Viki plus the two larger beasts.

Some players prefer to use their favourite characters, and some of these favourite characters may not even be in the top 50 best fighters despite how ridiculous you try to make up for their shortcomings through optimising the use of their skills and runes.

80 playable characters, a little bit more than a dozen bosses, possibly thousands of combination. And I'm glad I did not abuse Richard and Zerase, only to wonder why the game lack any difficulty whatsoever afterwards.
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Sophita

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, honestly, I don't play regular RPGs for their battle systems, but...Why does it need to be harder? I think Suikoden is, in all, a fairly easy game. There are a few challenging bosses (Abomination in Suikoden 2 is not only ugly, but MEAN) but I've rarely gotten a game over.

And I kind of like it that way. I don't really have time to run around leveling up everyone to level 60 just so I can take on the third boss. I find games where you have to spend hours leveling up beyond the normal limits boring; frankly, I have better things to do than level up to level 50 just to make the level 40 bosses beatable. And that's the problem, really, with making the battle system harder in a traditional RPG like Suikoden - there's no way to do it that isn't going to be tedious and boring.

Beyond that, I dislike the idea of a harder system because, in a game with 108 characters, probably 3/4th of which you can jam into your party, it would actively punish you if you decided you wanted say, Juppo, to accompany your hero, not Viktor. I like that the game is easy enough I can keep Lorelai in my party in Suikoden I, even if her stats are sub-par. I like that the game is easy enough I have the luxury of being able to play with my favorites, not just the Georg Primes of the games.

And as far as the runes go, I think it balances out when you consider the rune slots of the characters. Boost + fury + double strike is a wicked combination - but it also requires 3 rune slots, which not all characters have, and most characters don't get until reaching a very high level (~ level 55 when the highest you can get without power leveling is around the mid level 60's). Many of the most powerful mages in Suikoden V - the only one with magic drain runes, I think, actually - can't equip it due to having an unremovable rune in the slot where it would go. So while you can use and abuse those characters who are lucky enough to have three rune slots and have none of them preoccupied by other runes, that's a pretty small minority in terms of playable characters.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Battle System in Suikoden VI: Change it or Keep it? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ryusei wrote:
With the power of the PS3, maybe Konami could think of ideas to better improve the game's battle system.


Cute. But Final Fantasy has used essentially the same system for its series since the very first game, only with neat (and often times tedious) customization to the scheme. There's not many 'new innovative battle' ideas that could be implemented on the PS3 that couldn't have been done on the PS1.

If you're wanting strategy-based combat, we got that with Suikoden Tactics. I personally like Suikoden's battle system because its simple, hassle-free, and watching Auto-Battle is amusing when everyone attacks at the same time. The last thing I play Traditional RPGs for are gameplay. For that, there are infinitely better games I could play instead.
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Inko

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

well... they could always change it to a real time battle system, which would be interesting...
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Ryusei

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Inko wrote:
well... they could always change it to a real time battle system, which would be interesting...


Yeah, they could do that though I cannot say I am a fan of real time battle systems myself. I don't think it would hurt to have a battle system which can be exciting and enjoyable like real time rather than the boring, repetitive and tedious turn-based traditional system Suikoden currently has.

But then again, each person has his own opinion. Some people would rather stick to the traditional turn-based system like what the posters above said.
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I view the main Suikoden series (I, II, III, IV and V) as a Turn Based RPG series. I'd see changing the system to Real Time as bad as, say, changing the next Final Fantasy into a racing game or Madden '07 into a FPS.

I wouldn't mind real time battles in a side-game, but I wouldn't what the concept of the games to be changed in the main line.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I would be quite upset if they changed the battle system of Suikoden to real-time, or any other RPG for that matter. I don't want to play a reflex game, and I pretty much stop playing any RPG which has a real-time battle system just on principle. That having been said, sure Suikoden's battle system is boring...but how do you spice it up, other than fundamentally changing it?

You can't fundamentally change it because there's not really a better alternative that people will like. RPGs aren't supposed to be about the battles anyway, they're about the storyline and other aspects of the gameplay. Suikoden always has more other things in it than some other RPGs too, with the duels and large army battles and large numbers of minigames.

If you're looking for a perfect game, you'll be looking for a long time.
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uwangski

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Keep it.

The reason why I lost interest with Kingdom Heart is because of the battle system. I'm not really into those kind of battles. Generally, I find it hard to cope to games with "new and innovative battle systems." I found Xenosaga III more interesting than the previous ones because they switched to more of like the "generic" type.

About the difficulty aspect of the game, well you can always go out and challenge yourself, for example finish a game without using a rune or something else. Difficulty shouldn't really change because not every gamer is interested in the "gameplay" aspect, but is more on "storyline" aspect. For that, maybe they should include a harder difficulty for those who wish to challenge themselves, in addition to a normal difficulty for people like me.

Ryusei wrote:
I don't think it would hurt to have a battle system which can be exciting and enjoyable like real time rather than the boring, repetitive and tedious turn-based traditional system Suikoden currently has.


I don't get bored with it. Ofcourse, not everyone thinks the same.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Personally, I like the turn based battle system. Maybe it comes from being there at the dawn of RPGs and that's how they all were, so I got used to it. I can honestly say that I hated the type of battle system that was in Tales of Symphonia, for example, which is why I've never finished the game. The closest to real time I would put up with is like Grandia's system. No, I rather enjoy being able to take my time if I wish, change my mind midway through and not have to rush. Changing up Suikoden's battle system from the turn based one would take away from my enjoyment. Yes, the main thing for me in an RPG is the story, but if I'm not enjoying myself during the fighting between story segments, then I'm probably not going to finish the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd think it'd be impossible for Suiko's battles to be changed in real-time simply because that's 6 character's you have to command at any given time. It's possible with 3 (Star Ocean TTEOT) or 4 (any Tales of game) but 6 would be too much to handle.

IMO I think I would say to that HP totals of both the bosses and characters need to be raised (with your party members having HP in the thousands) to make things more difficult. Along with that, have command runes have their own seperate actions (like the ones in Tactics) and have harder hitting bosses. Sure it sounds tedious but there's the difficulty raised right there.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

bring back the battle-system and skill-system from 3, that wat the best battle-system in the series, BY FAR!

i know the buddy system was bad to some people, but maybe you people should appreciate that konami want to "evolve" the series into something better.. because of your complaints whe got the 4 man -battle-party in S4 and the INSANELY easy fights in S5..
In fact, i was never i big S1 fan, but after i played S5 i enjoyed playing S1 again, cause the game was so much harder..

But the best part about 3 was the different PoV, that way you get to play with MANY of your characters as a part of the story-line, for a long time too..i am not saying they should bring bang the trinity sight system, but i wish there were A LOT more party split-ups.. for ex:

- 2-3 groups goes on different missions
- one group has to act as a divertion for another
- one goup has to push a button to open a door for another group

yeah and so on, you get the point.. also

- no level 1 weapons and crap armor!!
- war battles like 2 and 5
- equipment making from 4 and tactics
- more locked armor/skills/runes/accessories, defines the character more
- a ninja that looks like a ninja (watari and kage are ok)


and:
Parallax wrote:
If you're looking for a perfect game, you'll be looking for a long time.


there is one, and its called KOTOR, perfect game IMO, the only minor flaw it has is loading times, on par with S5 lengthwise, but doesnt happen nealy as often.. great battle-system, plot and characters..this is how a mute hero should be like..if you are a star wars fan this is a 11/10, if not.. 9,5/10..maybe

over and out
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

To me, the problem with Suikoden series is the lack of challenge rather than problematic battle system. The battle system is fine, and I certainly don't want to spend 5 minutes per random battle because I'd go crazy if that were to happen.

What I do want is a more difficult boss fights, and if possible, add an even more challenging optional bosses (like Ozma from Final Fantasy IX, or the Weapons from Final Fantasy VII). Personally, I like my random battles to end quick and easy. We are going to be involved in hundreds if not thousands of random battles throughout the game. Why would we want it to be difficult? No point. So the difficult/challenging battles should be reserved for the "special occassions" like boss fights or optional boss fights.

The problem that I see with how it's done in Suikoden games so far is that the developer seems to miss out on the fact that Suikoden games (bar Suikoden IV) has 6-man party. Meaning that at the most, there would only be 1 dedicated healer and that leaves 5 other characters to do the offense. This makes even the bosses to fall down very quickly. What needs to be done is to add more HP for the bosses (and actually make them far stronger too), and add the number of multiple-enemy boss fights (and I'm not talking about 1 General + 5 weak soldiers here) so that we too will be hit by more than 1 enemy.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i say, the old suikoden battle system, six man formation with 1 support is the best battle system i ever play(turn based basically).i dun want it to be change like suikoden III and IV. so i will stick the old one. i totally happy that the old battle system they use in suikoden V and really hoping that they use the system again for next upcoming suikoden.

i don't mind that they change a liitle bit. as long as the old battle system remain
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