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Kikito

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:19 pm    Post subject: New Headquarters Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I knew either me or someone else made this thread before The Great Disaster, but since no one's made the move I thought I'd post it myself.

Well, as we all know every Suikoden game's army has a base of operations. Each game has provided us with a unique location where the Stars off Destiny gather. From Toran Lake's Castle to Suikoden IV's The Dauntless(or whatever the cannon name is). They have all varied in uniqueness, as I'm sure most would agree.

This is a thread to speculate on what sort of Headquarters you all think Suikoden VI will have, or you think should have.

As for myself, I had this random thought where the next Suikoden could have some sort of circus/travelling performer theme and the Headquarters would be a sort of caravan with many tents and that sort of stuff. That sort of stuff could work very well with a True Jongleur Rune or whatever True Rune the Jongleur Rune came from.

Well, speculate away!
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Parallax

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Multiple loadings do not make me happy. Therefore, I propose that there be a room where everyone in your army stands in lines, and you can easily locate the single person you need to talk to, talk to them, and move on with your life. Otherwise, I might have to run through a dizzying series of corridors and rooms searching for a single character in my army who is in a totally non-obvious place while enduring a series of painful loading screens.

No, seriously though...I didn't much care for Suikoden IV's ship; I like the castles better. I think I'll be reasonably happy with whatever they come up with...the nature of the headquarters has never been all that important to me.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It has to be an upgrading castle. I hated the ship idea, and I really didn't like the Budehec castle where even when you had all 108 it looked like a run down dump. The castle must be like 1, 2, and 5. I find this to be a fairly important aspect of the game, so the only way to be sure that it's not messed up is to stick with what they know everyone likes.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't think loading times should become too much of a problem when Suikoden VI finally comes out. If there's still to be loading times hopefully it'll be only a few seconds. As for what sort of HQ the next game should have I still prefer that it remain a castle instead of any other sort of structure. And since the game is set in a fantasy-style universe castles pretty much are the perfect fortified structures to base a fledgeling and growing army of Stars of Destiny.

Now taking the castle format for your Tenkai's army there could be alot of things done to either improve on its look, design and/or innovation. Some changes or adjustmenst could be superficial and cosmetic. With the next game going to be nextgen the look of the castle could get more detailed. Such as dynamic lighting coming in through castle windows, and especially when coming in through stained glassed window panels. Other's cosmetic changes could be to allow for the player to customize where to put each Star recruited. Right now we're pretty much stuck with where the Stars are put in the castle by Konami developers. I wouldn't mind having the ability to pick which part of the castle will house certain type of Stars and even individuals. Maybe as a player I'd like to have Jeane be right next door.

Another change, though abit more complex, is to actually allow the castle to become part of the war battles. One way this can be done is maybe the opposing army having put the castle to siege then broken through the defenses to raid the castle interior. Battles between units could be done within the hallways and corridors, the tops of the castle battlements, and the plaza areas. The castle needs to become more of an integral part of the game other than a place where all the current recruited SoD's could congregate. This would make choosing which battle unit fights where become less of putting the strongest SoD at the front and put more of a strategy in deciding who leads what unit and where they should fight.

Now, for some really crazy ideas, the castle should be located somewhere it's never been put in before. For a world that's suffused with runes and True Runes, whose to say the Sindar were never able to create a fortification that's pretty much a castle on top of a floating piece of bedrock. It's something that may not perfectly fit in whats been shown of the Suikoden world, but dagnabbit that would make for a cool visual and even open up alot of possibilities in how the SoD HQ casttle could be used. This floating HQ could be made to even move, slow moving, but still move so that it's not static in just one place. It's something I've taken from the AD&D Forgotten Realms system of games and it's always looked cool. The only disadvanatge I see this type of HQ will have is the lack of a pier for a small fleet. But then a floating and moving castle system really wouldn't need a flotilla of ships to fight another fleet. The castle itself would be like a ship when it comes over a body of water.

So, I say keep the castle HQ format, but at least try to make some changes both cosmetic and serious in terms of uses and gameplay.
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think a neat castle would be one built into a shear cliff. It would be akin in design to the adobe homes of Mesa Verde and Cliff Palace. It would provide an interesting approach strategically, the biggest threat being raids by the enemy since launching seiges would be more difficult if it's in the side of a cliff. You could choose how you defend yourself and all kinds of strategy related choices. I would like that. You could even maybe discover a cavern or something once you recruit a dwarf who digs and you'd be able to expand further into the cavern providing more gameplay elements where you can design your head quarters.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

A castle HQ built into a cliff system would be cool. It could also allow for the upgrading that some have mentioned. Like you said recruited dwarves could allow the castle to expand from the cliff face and deeper into the bedrock. One variant of such an HQ would be to have it built into a cliff-face that overlooks a sea or lake coastline. This way a pier system could be built to allow for a flotilla of ships. I like this idea.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

NPC's, dammit! For an army of 20,000, the castles never seem to have all too many people in them. I'm at the end of II now, and the castle actually feels populated. I thought V's HQ needed more people around.

That said, the HQ for VI could be in the air, ala generic Final Fantasy floating island/continent.

That cliff thing sounds sweet, too.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think that's why the nextgen power of the PS3 and/or other console would really help in creating a game that shows accurate population in a certain town or structure. In addition to the Stars of Destiny recruits the place could have the families, hanger-ons, and the soldiers who've joined the cause. I mean the place does need cleaners, kitchen help whose job will be to help the SoDs recruited to be the chef and bar owners. A section of the castle set aside for training large amount of soldiers would make for great visuals everytime the player walks or runs through it.

Another thing that would be interesting to see, though I dont know how many people would like it, is for Stars of Destiny who don't operate shops, training schools, forges, etc... to be constantly roaming the castle just like real people would. I mean if the Star doesn't do anything other than fight in battles or just a hanger-on recruit then it would be interesting to see them at the restaurant one moment then hours later at the hot bath and sauna lobby area waiting for their turn.
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Son of Liberty




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Tullaryx wrote:
I think that's why the nextgen power of the PS3 and/or other console would really help in creating a game that shows accurate population in a certain town or structure. In addition to the Stars of Destiny recruits the place could have the families, hanger-ons, and the soldiers who've joined the cause. I mean the place does need cleaners, kitchen help whose job will be to help the SoDs recruited to be the chef and bar owners. A section of the castle set aside for training large amount of soldiers would make for great visuals everytime the player walks or runs through it.

Another thing that would be interesting to see, though I dont know how many people would like it, is for Stars of Destiny who don't operate shops, training schools, forges, etc... to be constantly roaming the castle just like real people would. I mean if the Star doesn't do anything other than fight in battles or just a hanger-on recruit then it would be interesting to see them at the restaurant one moment then hours later at the hot bath and sauna lobby area waiting for their turn.


Interesting idea. But in order to achieve that, the graphics needs to be weaker than any other aspects of the game. Given the specifications of the next-gen consoles, it is unlikely to have high resolution graphics with abundance of gameplay.

As for the second idea, I think it's bery interesting. Given the fact that Tri-Ace had done it with Radiata Stories, adding this feature into Suikoden would be a plus feature. It gives the characters more human.
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Thief

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I despised that feature in Radiata Stories. It was such a waste of time trying to track someone's movement and be at the right place at the right time to meet with them.

Terrible.
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Ryusei

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thief wrote:
I despised that feature in Radiata Stories. It was such a waste of time trying to track someone's movement and be at the right place at the right time to meet with them.

Terrible.


I think why it didn't work in Radiata Stories is because of RS' time system. You have to be at the same spot at the same time to meet a certain character.

I don't think Suikoden would have the same problem seeing as it currently doesn't have a time system. The "moving characters" feature might work in Suikoden VI. All they have to do incorporate the feature is to do the same thing Konami has done to the characters in Suikoden II. If they could do it in the PS1, why not on the PS3?
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Son of Liberty wrote:


Interesting idea. But in order to achieve that, the graphics needs to be weaker than any other aspects of the game. Given the specifications of the next-gen consoles, it is unlikely to have high resolution graphics with abundance of gameplay.


I would disagree on that, but only because of what the Sony people have said about the PS3 and how it's suppose to take graphics and gameplay to the next level. For a machine using a powerful processor like CELL and with a custom-designed GPU from nVidia, I'd think that Konami developers should be able to figure out a way to allow non-Stars of Destiny npcs populate the castle HQ. Plus, the look of the game doesn't have to resemble 3/4 isometric POV of Suikoden V. BioWare and Bethesda have shown that a game can still expand on the gameplay mechanics and still populate the screen with dynamic NPCs that interact with their environment and other NPCs.

It would make for a more immersive game if the Tenkai gets greeted by the castle's NPCs depending on how the status of the war. If during one of the war battles, the Tenkai and his forces rout and annihilate the opposing army, the NPCs would greet the hero with awe and much hero-worship. If the battle was won with the slightest of margin with casualties on the Tenkai's forces being almost as bad as the defeated army, then the NPC will temper their congratulations with talk questioning the leadership abilities of their leader. This would make the castle less a stopping point to just heal and buy discounted supplies, but a place that would be fun to run around in, explore and find out just how the people really think about him.

Another fun way this dynamic change to the castle HQ could be used is when Jeane is finally recruited and moves her Rune Shop to the castle. You could have the male NPCs constantly gathering near the shop to catch a glimpse of Jeane. The women NPCs could be seen gathering abit farther away grumbling and complaining about their men and their fixation with the Rune Mistress. A near-riot could be something that almost breaks out if Jeane leaves your active party and walks back to her Shop where the men literally fall over each other to get the best view and a chance to speak or touch her. I'd follow Jeane back to the shop just to see that occur. Also, being the person Jeane will join, the male NPC's would look upon the Tenkai with equal awe and jealousy.
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uwangski

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Those are all nice suggestions about the castle NPCs but as a programmer, I can say those are pretty hard to program and implement (in comparison to stationery NPCs). This would further the waiting time for the game to be released. Let's not forget that Konami isn't as big as Squaresoft (or so I heard) in terms of their development team.

I'm not really saying I'm against the idea. As I've said, those are nice, only difficult.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

True, it would be something that could take time to do, so I say it needn't be in this sixth game but the one following up. Plus, Bethesda is not a large in comparison to Square-Enix and yet they were able to do this on Oblivion and, to a certain degree, in Morrowind. Even Molyneaux's team was able to implement the same thing on Fable. BioWare and Obsidian were able to do it in both Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic games. I think the problem is not whether Konami can do it. The problem is whether Konami is willing to take a wholly Western RPG innovation and put it into a Japanese RPG title.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Tullaryx wrote:
A castle HQ built into a cliff system would be cool.


Agreed. The image I've had in my head for a while now includes the aformentioned castle/cliff combination with a series of secret caves in the back accessible via the castle (possibly leading to the other side of the mountain, providing an effective escape method) and either a large forest at the front or a valley with a large river, perhaps both.
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