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leaving obel (spoilers)
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maverick




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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:53 pm    Post subject: leaving obel (spoilers) Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I just want to toss this out here as my girlfriend brought this to my attention while she was watching me play. What kind of a king abandons his kingom? Was anyone else bothered by how easily Lino gave up and fled obel leaving his nation to be occupied?
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Shrew

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

A wise king. Obel was facing impossible odds. They were drastically weakened trying to repel the third fleet, and only won because the Hero used the Rune of Punishment. Lino was smart enough to realize that remaining in Obel would only result in his capture or even death. At best he would remain underground and fight a guerilla war against Kooluk, akin to what Flare did. But with no help from the outside it would be only a matter of time before his capture.

By retreating from the island Lino managed to rally the other island nations to fight Kooluk and also keep the Obel monarchy from falling to the enemy. If a king is captured the morale of a nation would plummet, but if he to remain alive then the people would have hope that the king would return to liberate them. It's akin to MacArthur's departure from the Phillipines and that whole "I shall return" stuff.
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Noot

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's like what Teresa did in SII. He had to leave for now because his capture would weaken the morale of those that were fighting Kooluk (or hoping to fight). Only the King of Obel, with that Golden Seal, could really convince the other nations that they were determined in making a united stand.
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Solitude

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah the leader has to survive. What do you think would have happened if Lino en Kuldes (lol love that naem) was captured. Either imprisonment and torture of off with his head. The the other islands would see this and give into the Kooluk without of fight because they were afraid that they would meet the same end. And they probably would have regardless.
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Lunarblade

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, he was quite intelligent to do what he did...

Am I the only one disappointed that you couldn't fight in that sea battle right before? I would've preferred to do that instead of the rune...
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You know, I had thought that of Lino when it first happened, but Shrew's argument is a very good one. I have been convinced, anyway ^_^
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Gaara

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I agree with Shrew as well but I have a small query:

Then why was it considered wrong when Snowe abandoned his men?
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Milan Fiori

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Because Snowe paniced and fled sacrificing his men, where Lino fled to perserve his country and his peoples livlyhood.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

And also, there was the fact that Snowe panicked and screamed and left his man out of sheer cowardice and fear, while Lino thought it through carefully and weighed the odds before deciding that leaving was the best option.
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Carabbit




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There is a basic difference between the situations: the Gaien ship was going to be looted and sunk and the crew killed because they were being attacked by mailcious pirates (they were killed anyways, but that's besides the point.)

Whereas the Kingdom of Obel was occupied, it's inhabitants preservered but subjugated. The Kooluk were looking for domination, not destruction.

Snowe was in effect leaving the ship to preserve his own skin, while Lino left Obel so he could SAVE Obel.
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OptimisticPessimist

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Gaara wrote:
I agree with Shrew as well but I have a small query:

Then why was it considered wrong when Snowe abandoned his men?


That was because Snowe could do something about his situation, like fight back. Instead he panicked and fled the ship, leaving Hero IV to pick up the pieces. Not everything was as hopeless as he said it to be in that pirate scene, this is seen from how Hero IV takes command from Snowe and orders the Knights on board to fight. But he chose not to fight.

This was, with effect, condemning his own men to being killed by the pirates when they had a fighting chance.

Linos, on the other hand, faced overwhelming odds. He could stay and fight, but to do so would be saying that he can't do anything about the situation except bow to the Kooluks. Of course, then there was the fact that if he stayed and fought, the citizens of Obel would probably fight to the death with him and he could be killed, meaning that there would be no one to fight against the Kooluks. As king, he probably did not want to see that happen, especially when he created the means to at least buy himself some time before he could return to Obel and reclaim it.
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Ayreon

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think Lino acted like a cowar,because he left Flare and Setsu to their own fate.Now that doesn't mean that Snowe's act was a good thing,but from the beginning everyone was hostile against Snowe,because he was a Vingerhut.I believe that the people was jealous about him being a Captain,thats why he felt so much pressure and decided to leave the battlefield.
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Trevoke

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Let's compare things..

Snowe panicked and ran away.
Lino En Kuldes took as many people as he could with him and said, "I'll come back for you, my people!" ... Essentially, he was gonna (oh no, plot spoiler lol) recruit an army and kick some arse with it.
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Ayreon

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Trevoke wrote:
Let's compare things..

Snowe panicked and ran away.
Lino En Kuldes took as many people as he could with him and said, "I'll come back for you, my people!" ... Essentially, he was gonna (oh no, plot spoiler *laugh*) recruit an army and kick some arse with it.


Lol i dont see the difference,i mean Snowe is the bad because he ran away without telling anybody,but Lino is okay 'coz he ran away and said'' hey i'll come back,dont worry'' lol thats just crazy.
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Trevoke

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Snowe was like "We all gon' die! run away! Run away I tell you!"
He is also the captain of the ship; that means he is a pawn, while Lino is a king. The king is allowed a strategical retreat; the pawn must die rather than run away, so that he has a chance to inflict as much damage as possible to the enemy. Of course, a good pawn does damage and stays alive.
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