The Best Swordsman Discussion

[Vextor]

Many boards have discussed this topic to death, but here I would like to have a real discussion on who the best swordsman is within the Suikoden series. In order to do this, every claim would need a good amount of information and justification to back it up. To facilitate this, please use the following format.

1) Your Character of Choice-- Write the name, capitalized where appropriate with correct spelling. Write the full name if the character has a last name).

2) Definition-- Please explain what you define as a swordsman. That is, tell us your own perspective on the nature of swordsmen, so that people can know the basis of your justification.

3) Storyline Justification-- Why you think the character is the best swordsman based on the plot and setting they are involved. Correct capitalization is necessary. Include multiple samples. Saying, "I like Viktor because of how he killed Neclord" or something short is inappropriate, and will result in reduction of 10 soldiers from your regiment.

4) Gameplay Justification-- Why you think the character is the best swordsman based on gameplay or statistics. Correct capitalization is necessary. Include multiple samples based on your experimentation with that character. Saying, "Humphrey is the best because he has good armor!" or something short is inappropriate, and will result in reduction of 10 soldiers from your regiment.

5) Personal Reasons-- Mention your personal reasons why you think this character ought to be the best.

Entires that conform to the above standards will result in 20 soldiers added to the regiment of the writer.

Also, "swordsman" includes both male and female characters who use swords as weapons. "Sword" does not include thrown bladed weapons, and shorter varieties of bladed weapons, such as daggers. Killey's weapon is not a sword. They only include weapon types "One-Handed Sword" "Two-Handed Sword" and "Special" (only in the case they are swords).

Another member may respond to an entry as they please. A reply that has the effect of enhancing the entry would also net a reward of 5 soldiers.

A person willing to correct spelling, capitalization, grammar of another entry and re-post it would gain 10 soldiers.

Finally, I plan to post good entries on my site for the whole world to see.

With that said, I'll go with my own entry, as a sample.

1) Sansuke

2) A true swordsman must use his weapon for the betterment of society. A good swordsman also never has to use his weapon for killing, as the best of the best would never have to engage in combat--they can stop combat from happening at all. Such swordsmen are always victorious, as they win without winning.

3) Although sansuke's weapon is a saw, it is of type "Two-Handed Sword," and thus he qualifies as a swordsman. He uses his weapon masterfully to chop through vast amounts of wood to construct a bath. It takes a swordsman of exceptional skill to chop down wood. Because he seems to be able to construct bath houses instantaneously, his speed at cutting through wood must be quasi-divine. No other swordsman can possibly do this.

4) Sansuke's in-game stats are not the best, but he has a formidable combo attack with Gen. He is also one of the earliest two-handed sword users a player can gain for his army, and thus he is very useful gameplay-wise.

5) I think Sansuke is the best swordsman because I personally have a thing for baths. Baths are wonderful things, and a swordsman who excells at bathmaking is definately the best swordsman in my book!

[Seakida]

1) Flik

2) A swordsman has to have an excellent abilty with a sword, but they should not have to only use it. On top of that a swordsman must use his sword to defend his beliefs, not destroy the beliefs of others with it.

3) Flik is an excellent swordsman because he uses his sword to defend people, not harm them, for example in Suikoden 1 he uses it to defend off the Imperials while Tir escapes, and in the second he uses it to save Nina and Fitcher, as a threat of course. And incase he is unable to use his sword if for any reason, he can be backed up with his incredable magic. He also has a sense of honor that revolves around his true love Odessa.

4) Flik is awsome in battle. He is really fast and usually attacks 2nd or 3rd. He is also strong in which he can take out most enemies in one round. His magic power is excellent, which gives him something to save up for when he fights bosses. You get him fairly early in 1 and 2. And sense you cant avoid not useing him in 1 in the final fight, might as well use him. And in 2, if you useing the Knights or Viktor, use Flik, the unites are powerful.

5) I like Flik because of his sense of honor, something a swordsman should always have. Flik also has a sense of duty and is ever in search for his true goal, Manhood.
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-Mercanary Leader of Eastern Muse-

[Vextor]

20 soldiers added to Seakida

[ubertronmanguy]

1.Chris Lightfellow

2.I think that a swordsman is just a person who can use a sword really well.

3.People constantly comment on how good of a fighter Chris is throughout the game Shiba even called her a she-devil.Another such incident occurs in Chisa when Yuber wishes to duel Chris because he witnessed her prowess in battle.

4.Chris has some of the best stats in the game her attack and defense were very high especially since she was able to use some of the strongest armor in the game early.Not only that but she had really good skills from the beginning of the game.

5.I liked Chris mainly because she was a very take charge sort of person but not to the point of being annoying like Lilly. Chris also was one of the few characters in rpg history to change her clothes :lol: .
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Winne the Pooh>YOU

[Saben]

1) Roundier Haia

2) Being a swordsman is simply a matter of using a sword. Being a good swordsman is about being able to use that sword with skill, strength, creativity and effectiveness. A swordsman usually adopts his own philsophies regarding his weapon and in my mind a swordsman of strong character will use his sword for a 'greater good'. Also, in my opinion a swordsman should share his philosophies with others.

3) Although we are yet to see Roundier Haia in game, we see two of his pupils, Valeria and Anita, both of whom carry the Falcon Rune. Common sense would state that the Falcon rune is only usable by characters with One-Handed Swords (in particular a fencing style sword, similar to those Valeria and Anita use). As such we can assume that the master of the Falcon Rune technique also posesses a similar weapon. Valeria is one of the Six Generals of the Toran Republic and although it is possible for a student to surpass their master, I think Roundier Haia deserves total respect for his abilities as a swordsman and master.

4) We have no in-game stats of Roundier's own to go by, however he is the master of the Falcon Rune technique and that rune is obviously quite powerful.

Also we can analyse hypothetical stats based on Valeria and Anita. Anita has above average TECH and HP while being around average in the other areas. Valeria has above average STR, TECH, SPD, LUCK and HP while being average in the other categories and in fact these stats make Valeria statistically superior (in a purely numerical way) to characters like Flik, Luc and even the 'almighty' Pesmerga. So I think it is safe to assume that were Roundier Haia to make an appearance, he would have substantially powerful stats.

His students also have a powerful unite attack using their Falcon Runes that goes even further to showing their master's abilities.

5) I was always a fan of Valeria, even from Suikoden 1, I found the Falcon Rune to be absolutely awesome. In Suikoden 2 I was always torn between getting Valeria and getting Sasuke (another favourite) early, but usually went for the former. Anita is another character I am quite fond of, because of her comical personality. What made me like Roundier Haia most, though, was when his gender was unknown and he was featured at Tabula Rasa as a female kobold that absolutely kicked buttocks.

[Vextor]

20 points given to ubertronmanguy

40 points given to Saben for his well-written article. Not only is his post gramatically correct and uses correct spacing, caplitalization (making it easy to read), his examples are very clear and objective. It was also a very interesting read. Thank you!

[Leo]

Pesmerga

A Swordsman to me is a loyal person, someone who will take up arms to fight for there lords, and continue. Someone who who helds a blade for there "owners" reasons would be a swordsman. Pesmerga fits that, as he doesn't seem to be chasing Yuber just for the hell of it, I think he was ordered to do it, but got emotions to kill him on the way.

In storyline, Pesmerga is dubbed as one of the strongest swordsmen, as we is on equal, if not a bit lesser then Yuber with a sword. As he has met Yuber beofre, and both never end, it would seem that Pesmerga does have the ability to stabd up and defeat Yuber. Also, as stated, the Suikoden series will end when they have their duel, so it would mean that he has the fate of the world on him, so to have that power would mean a great fighter.

In gameplay, at least in Suikoden II, he can counter a lot of stuff, and he is also a tank. he gets a lot hp as well, so even if he is highly damaged, he is still has a lot of HP. He is strong, when you get him leveled, he can defeat enemies with ease, so his has done a lot to prove he is great in gameplay. He has no rune equipt to him in Suikoden so that means he is focused completely on using his abilities as a swordsman to defeat enemies, and in Suikoden II, it is a counter rune, and as it was a physical rune, it shows all he needs is his skill.

As for my personal reasons, he is a badass, he wears kickass black armour, his sword has a cool name, the King Crimson. He is Yubers equal, so he is just so badass.

[Vextor]

Leo, you didn't state your own definition of what a "swordsman" is.

[Maximillian]

1) Maximillian

2) A true swordsman must be honorable and brave. A true swordsman must use his skills for good rather than evil. A true swordsman must never put down his sword until all evil is gone from this world. A true swordsman needn't even weild a sword himself, if he can inspire others to fight for his cause. A true swordsman's name should live on long after his death. A true swordsman should be remembered for all the great deeds he had done, and all the wrongs his sword had righted. A true swordsman will never die.

3) Although we haven't seen Maximillian do any great deeds or even wield a sword, this is primarily due to him playing a small role in the games and the games being set when he was well past his prime, we have heard tales of his triumphs from his younger years and we indirectly see his influence through his military force in Suikoden I and through his grandson in Suikoden III. In Suikoden I 1,200 people join your army because Maximillian has joined it, that's the kind of respect he gets, 1,200 people think that because Maximillian joined your side that it MUST be the right side, so much so that they are willing to sacrifice their lives for that cause. Maximillian surely must have done some great and noble things to earn this kind of a following. His grandson, Fred, tries to carry on the Maximillian tradition of knighthood wandering the Grassland fighting evil wherever he sees it. While he may not be as successful as his grandfather in his journeys, he still has the spirit and skill of a great swordsman, he just needs to mature a little.

4) First and foremost is the fact that in his 60's he could still command the strongest military force in the Liberation army, even when teamed up with his trusty sidekick and a small oddly-named child. He commanded a stronger force then many other seasoned swordsman and so-called "Great Generals". Other than this, we have no in-game stats for him directly, but indirectly his grandson's stats can be attributed to Maximillian's winning genes. Fred Maximillian, if built up properly, can be a formidable swordsman, taking next to no damage and taking down his foes quickly.

5) My own personal reasons for liking Maximillian are simple ones. My favorite book of all time is Don Quixote, and Maximillian is quite clearly based off of the Don Quixote character. As well as my inexplicable fondness for elderly characters in books and video games, Maximillian is what I aspire to become when I am in my 60's...

[adrich]

1 - Yuber

2 - A swordsman need not be concerned with anything but his own skill. To make the best of his weapon of choice, a swordsman needs both strength and speed. A master swordsman will go beyond the limits of others to develop his own techniques and style. As with any warrior, adaptability and resourcefulness are also key.

3 - Yuber has shown incredible destructive power throughout history. Though he has many talents, he most certainly excels with a blade. In Suikoden III he uses two blades at once, which can often be a difficult technique to master, but he uses them with deadly efficiency. The retractable blades also distinguish him from other inferior swordsmen. In Suikoden II he wields a different sword, which demonstrates his ability to use multiple techniques. Yuber's talents are not just limited to a single trick or two.

4 - All of Yuber's stats are either average or above average. He possessed great strenth and agility. His weapon had the attack strength of a two-handed sword but the lightness of a one-handed sword. Yuber could easily slash his foes multiple times in a single attack, often finishing them off before they even had a chance to act. He could take on entire enemy parties on his own. This fact alone should prove his worth.

5 - Frankly, I am absolutely amazed that he could fight with hollow swords and never have them break.

[Shabadoo]

1) Valeria

2) To me a good sowrdsman is some one who holds immense skill in sword combat.

3) When Valeria first joins you in the first Suikoden she becomes your most valuble non magic fighter and is through out the entire game (In my opinion). In the second Suikoden game you meet her rival, Anita. Although Anita seems to be an extremly skilled swordsman Valeria seems to be better (I'm pretty sure when you talk to her before she is recruited some of her random sentences are in regards to Valeria having some form of supperior swordsmanship, not 100% sure though) despite the fact that they were tought under the same master.

4) Most physical attack runes we see in the suikoden series are either some form of charge up, an area attack, or a powerful strike. The Falcon rune seems to be very diffrent from thoes, it is a series of well calculated blows that result in major damage. Another thing with the other attack runes is that they are either weak, unbalce you, or can be used once per battle. The Falcon rune does none of these in fact you can use the falcon rune in place of a regular attack, this shows that Valeria must have great skill to do such a powerful attack so many times without becoming weaker or disoriented.

5) I liked and pretty much always used Valeria in the first two suikoden games. I always thought that she was one of the best playable characters in thoes two games.

[Vextor]

Maximillian Quixote adrich, and Shabadoo have gained 20 soldiers for their contribution. Thanks!

[Leo]

Umm, I edited my post to show what I think a swordsman is... Or is it still bad?

[Archangel]

1) Augustine Nabor

2) A true swordsman must be strong, skilled, and graceful. When watching a great swordsman fight, it should almost look as if they are dancing.

3) Since Augustine didn't have a real role in Suikoden 3's plot, it is hard to site specific examples in the story in which he shows his amazing skills. However, while Augustines personality often causes his comrades eyes to roll, his skill with a sword almost always causes his enemies heads to follow suit.

4) With the right skills and equipment, Augustine can inflict about as much damage per turn as any other character. He is accurate and quick, and he even has his own attack rune which can be very useful.

5) At first sight, I knew that Augustine was a narcissist. For some reason, I decided to give him a chance in battle, which is a courtesy that I only rarely extend to Milich or any of the other narcissists. Augustine didn't disappoint. He is now, and will always be a fixture in my team whenever I play S3
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ARCHANGEL HAS RETURNED

[Sualtam Lugh]

1) Ain Gide.

2) Definition-- A swordsman protects what is right, and is always honourable. He is merciful, and protects what needs to be protected. Even when blinded by something, they will still be able to justify their fighting.

3) Ain Gide did it. He showed mercy to Tir and Viktor and co, and let them get past the Gate between the Greminister territory and the Southern Region. You knew right there and then you would have to fight him. When it came down to it and you faced off, even though he knew there was something wrong with Barb, he still fought. He fought for his old friends, his lord, his country, and most importantly, for Tir. He wanted to make sure Tir was strong enough to make a new country. Albiet Tir didn't have direct involvement in making Toran the actual country, it was he who helped to liberate the country and make it free. Ain saw this coming.


4) Gameplay Justification-- Now...THis was a hard one. I walked into this question saying who's the best swordsman. You can't directly fight as Ain, but you do fight against him late in the game. Using a little bit of knowledge, I would assume if he was recruitable at that moment, he would be along the lines of level 50. His strength would probably be his best point, but his magic would be his downfall.

5) Personal Reasons-- He fought for what he believes in and he died with honour. That's always meant the most to me. If you can die for something that means something, you can truly die.