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Most Powerful Wizard
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:24 pm    Post subject: Most Powerful Wizard Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This is a thread to discuss who you think is the most powerful wizard. As with most threads I make, there would be rules and rewards, hee hee. Well, it's simple; please follow the following format when making your initial claim on who the most powerful wizard is. People who follow the format to the tee will receive a certain amount of soldiers. You can reply to other people's claims as well, if you wish--but if anything gets personal, the thread will get locked.

1) Your definition of powerful wizard: Write down what you consider as the criteria for "most powerful wizard" in a single sentence.

2) Name of Wizard: Simply write the name of your pick.

3) Example: Write an episode that showcases how powerful this wizard is.

4) Comparison: Compare this wizard with two other wizards in Suikoden. Argue how your pick is superior to these two other wizards.

5) Opinion & Conclusion: Write your opinions on why this character is the most powerful wizard. Then, conclude your passage gracefully.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1) A powerful wizard is someone who can obliterate almost anything in a matter of seconds, using magic.

2) Crowley

3) I'm sure almost everyone on these boards knows of the duel between Crowley and Mazus. With their powerful magic, they not only killed themselves, but they also leveled a whole mountain and created the Badlands that lie between Dunan and Toran.

4) One might say someone like Luc or Sasarai is a more powerful wizard. However, one must remember that they both have True Runes, and Crowley doesn't. Even still, it is evident they are nowhere near the level of mastery that Crowley has, when Luc and Sasarai duel in Suikoden 3 it does not damage the Ceremonial site in the slightest.

5) Crowley is simply the most powerful wizard ever, their is no doubt about it. Just look at how many pupils he has. We have already met Mazus, Piccolo and Estella(?) who claim to be pupils of Crowley's. This shows that even if they are lieing, it is a great honor to be a student under Crowley because he is the most adept wizard to ever exist in the Suikoden world.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1) A powerful wizard is a magic uses that demonstrates amazing power and skill while using magic.Physical appearance or size has no merit, all that matters is the magic they can wield.

2)Luc or Hikusaak (pretty sure i spelt that wrong)

3)First I'll do Luc. In Suikoden 1 and 2 he dominated the magic aspect. In Suikoden 3 he takes Geddoe's True Rune and the other True runes. Not only does he beat these powerful members of the opposition he does with great ease. Hikusaak because he created two copies of himself(Luc,Sasarai) and is Bishop of Harmonia one of the most powerful countries in Suikoden.Also he's the holder of the Circle Rune and has been alive for 400 years.

4)Crowley and Sasarai. Crowley is indeed a powerful mage but he is younger and with or without a true rune is still stronger. In Suikoden 1 and 2 you didn't get to use the True Wind rune to your own discretion. He was still without a doubt the best magic user. Sasarai is also a fairly good wizard but he had no near the power Luc did he was just to greatly outmatched. There was no damage to the Ceremonial site because Luc has great control over the magic that he has. Also True Runes are giving to those who are worthy if Crowley was worthy he would of had one.

(Same wizards as Luc)....He hasn't been around as long as Crowley but Crowley also hasn't ruled a country and has barely been seen in existence.Hikusaak proved himself in "The Hero War" when he fought against Armonia. Plus he made copies of himself and bestowed both of them with True Runes.He's more powerful than Sasarai because he created Sasarai and he did with Luc also but Sasarai isn't as powerful as Luc i think Hikusaak and Luc are about the same.

5)Luc is the most powerful wizard because look at the destruction he's caused with such control and with such power. Dominating Suikoden 1 and 2 with his power ful magic. Wiping out all of the Sasarai's troops in Suikoden 2 with barely any exhuastion. Maturing and becoming a mage that was almost undefeatable......He had the power of the gods and used it as he saw fit. Plus he has a really bad attitude which is always cool.

Hikusaak is the most powerful wizard becuase he is/was the leader of the one of the most powerful countries in Suikoden. He ruled it flawlessly for centuries.He posesses the Circle Rune and can make copies of himself.Sounds pretty freaking powerful to me.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1) One with great mastery and skill over magic...No matter how old they are.

2) Sarah

3) Sarah is the only mage, aside from Luc, who is tied to the elusive Sindar clan. Sarah, herself, is drawn to the Sindar ruins by a force that was never explained. She is also able to command the power of the Elemental runes without having to bear them within her body. Though her power is not limitless, it is formiddable.

4) Crowley can easily be noted as the greatest wizard, but he gives away a major source of his power during Suikoden 1. When the magicians are summoned during a major battle, Crowley will say, "With the power of the 100 runes within me," or something along those lines. Sarah only bears two runes that we know of, one of which she was born with. Sarah could easily match magic with Crowley if he were to only be confined to two runes.

5) Though Sarah did not have much time to put her power to its full potential, she is, in my opinion, the greatest of the mages. She was wanted by Harmonia for her power, but rescued by Luc while she was still a child. She had even threatened to take on Yuber on occasion. Not many can be that confident when it comes to getting into a fight with the blond haired black knight, and for no other reason other than to just fight.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1) To define the true power of a wizard, is his/her mastery over mind, and can effortlessly summon all their magical strength at the breath of a word.

2) Mazus

3) There will always be close comparison between the overall power between Mazus and Crowley, as stated above where their duel led to their equal demise, at the cost of the destruction of the world around them, in a manner of speaking. He has strong discipline, and he recognizes strength when looking upon such a being.

4) Crowley definitely has more 'hidden' limits then Mazus, should the two ever have a rematch of sorts on the spectral plane, where their powers had time to re-energise, Mazus would dominate and destroy Crowley's essence once and for all. Now if you compared Luc and Mazus, while Luc is quite powerful in his magics in his own right, he has yet to master his abilities and could not hope to grasp Mazus's way of thinking or control. In that scenario, Mazus would triumph.

5) Mazus without a doubt is the most powerful wizard in my opinion, his magical power and abilities would conquer and who opposed his will, should he ever should he ever gain a balance in the spectral plane, and break free once more into the material realm... Nonetheless I still believe Mazus to be the most powerful Wizard and a superior being among mortal men. In conclusion, I leave you by saying once more that Mazus had the potential to go far, and I think his magical power could destroy any of his enemies, should he ever return, by otherworldly methods...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This one's gonna be a little odd, but bear with me.

1. I'd not confine this definition solely to magic users, for I believe the one who has, through their own ability, created a revered skill or tool.

2. Therefore, I nominate Bora Atkins as most powerful wizard.

3. Firstly, Atkins was the creator of Alchemy. Although not much is known about him, his Alchemy has become known in the modern suikoden world, and he is revered by many scholars. I think Alchemy should be considered a "form" of wizardry, since, although it isn't magic, it is basically an alternative to magic. I believe Atkins wanted to make a way for the denizens of the Suikoden world to progress without relying on the power of the runes.

4. Firstly, I'll compare Atkins to Crowley, since both of them are attempting similar ends, with different means. Crowley wants to be able to achieve agelessness without the use of a true rune. Therefore, like Atkins, he is attempting to defy the True Runes. However, I believe Atkins' method to be superior, since Crowley merely wants to defy the aging process, and by using runes nonetheless. Atkins didn't need to use runes, since he was basically trying to create an alternative to them.

Secondly, I'll compare Atkins to Windy, due to the fact that Windy could be considered "Most Powerful Wizard" because she was the only person who knew how to attach two True Runes to one body. Windy, again relies on True Runes in order to supply her power, instead of utilizing her mind and creating a whole new method of progression like Atkins.

5. Well, I've kinda written about my opinion throughout, but I'll offer a synopsis. Bora Atkins, unlike conventional "wizards", did not rely on runic power, much less the supreme power of the True Runes, in order to progress in his studies. I believe the creation of Alchemy to be a form of magic in its own, since it was able to bring technology into an otherwise magic-dominated world. The only real forms of technology shown in Suikoden are Alchemy and Trickster Arts, with the latter probably being derived from the former. Atkins' Alchemy was a venture which might, one day, free the inhabitants of the Suikoden world from a reliance on runes and magic.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1) A wizard is someone who is a master of all types of magic, and does not get power-mad with their abilities
2) Leknaat
3) Leknaat had a True Rune, but she did not go power-hungry or try to take over the world. She kept calm, and instead helped those who were trying to keep the peace. She might have a true rune, but that doesn't make any difference to how powerful she is.
4) First off, I will compare her to Luc. She was his mentor for near 18 or so years, depending on what year in time Luc "revolted" against her. They both had True Runes. She kept her cool for all those years, and unlike Luc who wanted to unite the runes, she wanted to protect the world. In the end, that is what led to Luc's downfall
Next I will compare her to her "sister" Windy. After the destruction of their village, Wendy became power-hungry and destroyed many villages to unite True Runes. Despite all her attempts, Tir and Leknaat helped defeat her in battle. In the end, Windy's desire to have more then one True Rune led to her apparent downfall.
5) With all that said, Leknaat is one of the most powerful magicians in Suikoden history, and in my opinion, will always be one of the most, if not the most powerful wizard in Suikoden.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

DAYAMN!!!! Six posts and six different answers!!! Aite, let me give this a shot.

1) The most powerful wizard is someone with the knowledge and the abilities which allow him to manipulate supernatural powers and events through the means of magic.

2) Crowley!!!

3) Well besides the fact that he destroyed the whole area which is now known as badlands, Crowley and Mazus are the only two magicians thus far that have the ability to reincarnate!!! Thats pretty damn big if you ask me. The reason I put Crowley above Mazus is because Crowley managed to single handedly learn how to manipulate greater runes to form unites (yes that was this guy). There was also writing in the book about three way unites which he discovered (mind you it seems to be a translation error).

4) Being Mazus's teacher, he surelly would have more wisdom and experiance with magic, thus surpassing his pupil in power. Crowley is also able to control the 100 runes on his body where as Mazus has only been known to carry two. Not to mention that Crowley reincarnated quite a while before Mazus.

All the other big wizards seem to have major flaws however, but the second bigest one would have to be Windy seeing as she was the only character capable of equiping two runes (and Leknaat already said she was weaker than her siste, and Luc is Leknaats apprentice whos even weaker). Thing with Windy however is that she totaly relies on the true rune she had in her possesion as well as her other non true rune which allowed her to control the minds of people around her. I don't really see her as much of a threat without the two, where as Crowley seems to have greater knowledge and magical abilities overall.

5) Well I love the fact that Crowley looks for magical power outside of the use of runes. He has found a way for everlasting life (through reincarnation) without the use of true runes and now he looks for stronger magical powers without the use of runes at all. A true wizard, where the only goal of his life is to become even more powerful and proficient in the art of magic. The only other with the same goal in mind is Mazus, so I'd instantlly take the rest of the wannabe wizards out of this league. :P
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The most powerful magician, in my point of view, is one whose power lies within their soul more than the runes they possess.

Sarah

Sarah's inner magical strength was reflected in everything she did to help Luc, that he entirely relied on her to teleport, transform and conjure the illusionary beasts, even though he was a True Rune Bearer himslf. She was chased for her unique powers, but eventually, she chose to use it to help Luc, who was the only one to bring her "joy"; so she must have been sincere in using it which made it even more effective.

Windy and Crowley were very powerful magicians. Windy, too, was capable of summoning illusionary beasts, but she summoned them during the Gate Rune War only to fight for her, unlike Sarah whose purpose was slowing the enemies down. If Windy was that strong a sorceress at heart, she would have tried fighting her enemies herself rather than hiding behind the invoked monsters. Leknaat and Joshua were able to defeat those monsters using the power of their runes, while Sarah's could not be defeated in one go, even by Geddoe, Chris, Sasarai and Hugo who also possessed True Runes' power.
Crowly had a great magical talent but he did not try to use it constructively. Yes, he was on the Hero's side and that side did win the war whilst Sarah's didn't; but even after the victory, he went back to the cavern. It just seems that he was never able to realise his true potential which restricted him from fully using the power he had.

Sarah was not a True Rune Bearer, yet the power of her spirit surpassed that of any rune. She tried her utmost by using all her power for what she chose to fight for, and in that respect, she proved herself to be the most powerful of all the magicians of Suikoden. She was defeated several times in battle, but nontheless her spells and magical ability were never conquered. Although she was unable to succeed in the end, the way she lived her life gave meaning to her death.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1) Someone who is more adept at the magical arts than any other, who could be the weakest physical being yet still be able to crush enemies using their magic.

2) Crowley

3) As wiseman said earlier, hes duel with Mazus was huge. They leveled mountains and destroyed eachother using their magical abilities.

4) Windy and Luc are both masters of magic, and quite possibly 2 of the strongest magicians in the series. However, you cannot throw out the fact that their sheer magical power might come largely in part from the true runes they carry. Crowley doesn't need a true rune to reach a strong magical ability. His training in sorcery has enabled him to not use a true rune, but reach the level as if he were using one.

5) I found Crowley very useful in Suikoden. I found him to be the best balanced offensive and healing magic user. His spells could wreak havoc and heal your party at the same time.....how much better can it get. Not only that, but you can use the spells over and over again due to his mastery of runes. Because of his sheer magical strength and his usefulness in combat, I find Crowley to be the most powerful wizard in the Suikoden World. [/b]
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
1) Your definition of powerful wizard: Write down what you consider as the criteria for "most powerful wizard" in a single sentence.


To me, a "powerful" wizard can't only be measured in terms of actual power. In my opinion, the term power can only be attached to anything deemed effective. In this sense, if a wizard has made himself potent and effective, then that's my opinion of power.

Quote:
2) Name of Wizard: Simply write the name of your pick.


Luc

Quote:
3) Example: Write an episode that showcases how powerful this wizard is.


Around the span between the end of Suikoden 2 and the start of Suikoden 3, Luc has made it his initiative to destroy his True Rune. He does so in order to free his own soul and release fate's desired destiny from the futures of the people. Throughout Luc's activities in the games, we can see that he is a very adept wizard. He summons a Stone Golem back in Suikoden 1, decimates the Harmonian army in Suikoden 2, and he is able to stop the likes of Leknaat, and Geddoe's whole crew in Mount Senai during Suikoden 3.

However, his real demonstration of power comes from his determination and willingness to accomplish his goals by any means necessary. In his point of view, you may choose to kill the Karayan Warrior and even almost kill off a little girl. Similarly, he was willing to get through his Older brother, who is by the way a Harmonian Bishop, to attain the True Earth Rune. His whole entourage withstood part of the Harmonian Army, The Grassland Army, The Zexen Knights, part of the Tinto Army, and a small combination of Nameless land troops. All of this was his idea and his magical skills helped him maintain his superior stance over all these groups until the end. He was willing to go through any lengths necessary to finish what he started; even at the cost of his own life.

Power comes from within. With the right purpose, nothing will stop that power from unleashing itself.

Quote:
4) Comparisons: Compare this wizard with two other wizards in Suikoden. Argue how your pick is superior to these two other wizards.


Mazus: Luc is vastly superior to Mazus in terms of their priorities. Mazus' sole purpose in life is to gain power itself and defeat Crowley. This is not the path to power. Seeking to benefit for yourself, is a sorry road to take. That journey never ends because the one seeking power will never be satisfied.

Leknaat: She's known as the Keeper of the Balance by all players of the Suikoden games and as a proficient sorceress that stays behind the scenes and does almost nothing to tip the scales of balance. She could have easily helped out the Liberation Army, Alliance Army, and Fire Bringer, but she didn't do much at all. Regardless of her role, the fact that she didn't help those respective armies, shows her unwillingness to be helpful, thus not defining herself as powerful at all. She is the total opposite of Luc who was willing to change fate.

Quote:
5) Opinion & Conclusion: Write your opinions on why this character is the most powerful wizard. Then, conclude your passage gracefully.


Luc's ambition is a noble cause. In an attempt to free himself and humanity's future from stagnation, he is willing to sacrifice lives along with himself to set the survivors free of their destiny. Since he feels so sincere about his cause, he demonstrates extraordinary traits and powers whenever the Destroyers were in trouble. Though he will always be remembered tormenting the Suikoden 3 players, they will always remember his power through the ages.

Richard Buckminster Fuller wrote:
"Our power is in our ability to decide."


And the power of his choice remains cemented in our minds forever.
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Anton Misri

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1) Your definition of powerful wizard: Write down what you consider as the criteria for "most powerful wizard" in a single sentence.

The wizard who has a ability to get what he wants (power) through use of his magic.


2) Name of Wizard: Simply write the name of your pick.

Windy

3) Example: Write an episode that showcases how powerful this wizard is.

Nobody in Suikoden world can attach two true runes to their body besides Windy. This shows that she acheives her goal and get what she wants. She also uses her magic to control an empire; she manages to control many generals to aid her true rune hunting.

4) Comparison: Compare this wizard with two other wizards in Suikoden. Argue how your pick is superior to these two other wizards.

Crowley- He is perhaps most knowlegable and skillful wizard, but not most powerful. He do not use his magic for gaining power; he spends time inside a cave.

Hikusaak- He wished to gather many true runes and developed cloning technology; He wanted to own more true runes. Windy was able to have more than one on her body; Hikusaak was not able to do this: He does not have the power to accomplish his goals. He is not powerful more than Windy.

5) Opinion & Conclusion: Write your opinions on why this character is the most powerful wizard. Then, conclude your passage gracefully.

Windy failed in the end when Barbarossa suicide with her (maybe they live?). She did have a power to accomplish her goals though; for that reason she is more powerful than other wizards.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1) Your definition of powerful wizard: Write down what you consider as the criteria for "most powerful wizard" in a single sentence.
Someone who's skill with magic allows them to contribute to a party in the ways of dealing mass amounts of damage, healing the party, or increasing their defense.

2) Name of Wizard: Simply write the name of your pick.
Sasarai

3) Example: Write an episode that showcases how powerful this wizard is.
I am reminded of the many times I used Sasarai near the end of S3, especially during the battle with the Wind Reincarnation. I had him with TER, Flowing, and Pale Gate. He made the fight really bearable. I one point he was able to pull off enough damage with Pale Palace that it took out the earth, fire, and water orbs.

4) Comparison: Compare this wizard with two other wizards in Suikoden. Argue how your pick is superior to these two other wizards.
Crowley: Although Crowley is trying to achieve the same power of a true rune without using one, having an actual True Rune is still better.

Sarah: Neither of them actually had that much for personality, but then again Sasarai has the experience over Sarah.

5) Opinion & Conclusion: Write your opinions on why this character is the most powerful wizard. Then, conclude your passage gracefully.
I believe Sasarai is the most powerful is because he has a true rune, but doesn't really flaunt it. He could easily use it like other true rune bearers--i.e. Luc and Windy--but he doesn't. He shows restraint, and that is why I think he's the best.

Oh, and he's one of the only people who'd be considered a 'wizard' that I use with any frequency other than Viki.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Let this be my first activity!!! I just wanna comment.

Quote:
Mazus: Luc is vastly superior to Mazus in terms of their priorities. Mazus' sole purpose in life is to gain power itself and defeat Crowley. This is not the path to power. Seeking to benefit for yourself, is a sorry road to take. That journey never ends because the one seeking power will never be satisfied.

I like this one!

Quote:
Sarah was not a True Rune Bearer, yet the power of her spirit surpassed that of any rune. She tried her utmost by using all her power for what she chose to fight for, and in that respect, she proved herself to be the most powerful of all the magicians of Suikoden. She was defeated several times in battle, but nontheless her spells and magical ability were never conquered. Although she was unable to succeed in the end, the way she lived her life gave meaning to her death.

You're insulting her by saying that lost several times! You should only be pointing out the good things, no?
What does she mean?! Way of life gave meaning to death? Shouldn't it be the other way round to mean a good thing?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What I meant is exactly what I wrote, Luna Nova. I wasn't 'insulting her'; I was only providing what I felt is necessary to back-up my point of view.

No, it does not 'need to be the other way around to mean a good thing' It seems that you see things from a completely different angle and that's fine. Well, to each their own, I guess.


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