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Do you think Suikoden should be more mature
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Lilly Pendragon

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:13 pm    Post subject: Do you think Suikoden should be more mature Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

not rated m but more mature yes or no
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Elc

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There are some things about Suikoden I would probably change if I could, though most of them are probably due to translation. (or things like "Right Riou. I mean, Lord Riou." which happened a lot) But, as a whole, I don't see much that should be changed about Suikoden. If the overall plot of one of the games is mature, and it fits with the feel of the series, I don't see any problem with it.

I would, however, have problem if a game downright insulted the player's intelligence.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I like the story and i liked the mature moments but what i would change is that they would give the main character a girlfriend i mean come on a man in power with no woman.....unheard of! but other than that i think it's just fine.
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Cedric

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The relationship issue doesn't bug me that much, at all. In this way, we're able to visualize and create our own pairings. I only with there were more interactivity with the castle residents. I said this before, but maybe you can talk to them to follow up on their comment box letters. Sure, dating the girls sounds fun too.

As far as maturity is concerned, it seems pretty fine with me. In war, there are casualties, and the games spare no person too close to the heroes and heroine. I really don't need to see their blood dripping from their wounds to absorb that dreaded feeling of death. The game does enough of it, on it's own, don't you think?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden is already an incredible mature RPG. Think about the themes presented in it. For one, the idea that sometimes fighting (and death) are unavoidable. Think of the burning of the Karayan village and the death of Lulu in Suikoden 3, or the suicide mission of Kiba. There's the incredibly dominant theme of growing up - finding out the world is not all black and white, but rather shades of grey. All the heroes of Suikoden struggle with this; it can be argued this is the main theme.

Suikoden is very mature in reguards to villiany - there are no clear "bad guys." Suikoden has suprisingly compassionate villians. There are very few black hats - and those there are even have their reasons. Luca Blight is plainly insane. Windy is a powermonger who seeks power even at the risk of injuring or killing others - but even she can be looked at compassionately; you could argue that she is a victim of abuse (she did see her homeland conquered and was forced to flee) and that she now strives to gain power to prevent herself from being overrun again. And, of course, you wind up having "villianous" characters join you - Georg murdered the Queen of Falena. Kirke is a executioner. Clive's an assasin. And many are thieves, gamblers, etc - not persons of traditional moral high ground.

And look at the way love is presented in Suikoden - it is not the overangsting! overblown! love of adolescents, but the more mature love of adults. The couples of Suikoden don't need long scenes to prostrate their love - indeed, it remains one of the few RPGs to NOT have any main character fall completely in love with another major character during the course of the game. They are dedicated to their lovers and spouses - Jowy arranges for Pilika and Julia to have a good life, even though he won't be part of it; Yoshino begs to join the war effort to be near to Freed; Kirkis is completely ruined when he thinks Sylvania has died. Sarah refuses to leave Luc's side. And the way sexual mores are displayed in Suikoden are pretty mature, too; though some characters are somewhat "loose", it is not vamped up or played up as a way to interest teenage boys; it's just ...there.

Or the fact that politics are part of Suikoden. Most RPGs tend to ignore politics beyond the idea that "Bad Guy Nation seeks dominon over Good Guy Dominion." Suikoden politics, while still pretty simple, are more advanced than that. There's a variety of political viewpoints - fascist, socialist, and everything inbetween. The reasoning is varied and complex - the squabbling fragile fellowship of the Jowston alliance; the relationship between the Grasslands and Zexen, or even the Zexen clans themselves. Harmonia's imperialist tendencies. The Queendom of Falena (a bloodthisty monarchy - and refreshingly, a female monarchy) has a healthy slave trade with the Island Nations (a merchant nation). Nations harbor grudges; nation's assisinate those who they find inconvienent.

But I fear this is not what you think mature is. Do I think Suikoden should be more graphic in it's violence? No, I'm all tired of bloodsport. I grew out of Mortal Kombat a decade ago. Violence can be reinforced without being show graphically - which is more horrifying, knowing Gremio is being eaten by man-eating spores and being forced to watch along with his loved ones, or seeing a graphic image of a bishounen man evaporating? Should Suikoden be more graphic sexually? No. If I wanted to watch sex, I would watch porn. And again, sex can be conveyed without seeing it - such as Jowy/Jillia's "final goodbye" scene. I mean, really, what on earth do you think Suikoden will benefit from getting closer to an M rating? It's incredibly mature in content, and in my view, that's enough.

(Edited because "evaporating" and "vaporating" are vastly different terms, and while one is more amusing, it wasn't the point I wanted to make.)
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Last edited by Sophita on Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:26 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Suikoden people need to swear more.. Like come on your in a fight for your life and your not swearing.... Pretty unrealistic for sure.. I like the idea of having a girlfriend.. You need one. And maybe Like sophita said

"Do I think Suikoden should be more graphic in it's violence? No, I'm all tired of bloodsport."

No thats bad Suikoden needs MORE blood. Theres none in SUikoen When i attack something nothing comes out of anything. They could at least make some blood squrit out when you attack something.. And in Duels maybe when the person gets hit you see like a stab on him/her. that would be soo cool..
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

mature means different things to different people; like the examples others have given above, for instance. are you referring to violence, sex, language or varying combinations? it would depend on what changes you want made, obviously.

i like it as is; adding in sex, excessive violence or cursing would turn away a significant part of the fandom that are drawn to it for what it is-an rpg that is playable for almost every age of player. they've made a visually appealing game that doesn't offend/frighten or put off players for any of the reasons already stated.

sex is overrated in gaming; so is violence-there are more than enough games that feature these two aspects-if you want that, then find other games that suit that particular need.

cursing? how many games are there now where the main character curses for no reason other than just to curse? is it really necessary? how does it truly add to the game? having a suiko hero randomly curse seems so out of place and pointless that it's almost offensive to imagine within the gameplay. just because a character attacks doesn't mean they'll 'accent' their attack with some random expletive-it just seems silly and utterly useless.

i'm happy with it as is, with the exception of storylines *sIII* or storyline thread that are left unexplained *jeane...*
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If you want a classic RPG with plenty of blood (and a bit of swearing), I recommend Vandal Hearts.

Suikoden is a PG-13 world, and I like it that way. Like it was said earlier, the excessive violence/sex is hinted at but never shown. Would you have preferred in SII if you actually saw Luca's history? knowing his mother was brutally raped and killed in front of him? Just knowing about it is enough.

I sometimes wish the conversations were more than simple stupid remarks, but that's what every day life is full of as well. How often do you actually talk to a peer (at school, work, whatever) 3-5 sentences at a time? Or even say anything longer than 5-10 words per sentence? Suikoden has simpler language, and it sometimes seems like a simple game (especially Suikoden 1) but the underlying world is so complex it's hard to find a place to begin.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

hmmm where do I stand, well you can make it more mature, or darker, I think some here vouch for "darker"

as many pointed out just mentioning is enough, just knowing what happend is as good as seeing it....do we really want to see that guys head (didn't somone decapitate S.W's president and hang his head over the door of his house or somthing?) thats a "esshwh!" momment.

bessides, if you want "mature games" go get GTA and rape and murder all you want, you want a "mature story", go get some fan fiction..I admit I'd like to see less "sexualy mature" just because its adult, dosen't mean poeple need to be all jumping everyone...they could i don't know...get stoned or eat people.

Suikoden could have, well a country with moral issues, that way any little thing could be blow up in, or have a lax country where all "our little no-nos" don't exist.
like marrying 9 year olds and such.

well for mature, we could add drugs into the suikoden world, not everone is a booze hound you know...we could have "substance use" or make the Kobold/Nekibold/werewolvs more "furrie" (heh, no)
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Noot

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

kuwaizair wrote:
Suikoden could have, well a country with moral issues, that way any little thing could be blow up in, or have a lax country where all "our little no-nos" don't exist.
like marrying 9 year olds and such.


See, that's a good idea of a mature theme. A place where it's okay to marry children (or use slave labor like in Illusion of Gaia) would only add another dimension to the universe.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, I don't know about the first one, but regarding the slavery issues, the Island Nations and the Queendom of Falena already have engaged in slave trade in Suikoden's storyline. Also, children of Third Class citizens from Harmonia also are sent to Crystal Valley.
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sybillious

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i don't think they'd go so far as to marry off 9 year olds *they could, but the 'married couple' might live apart...this happens in some cultures* or merely have them 'betrothed' at that age, with a marriage date set a few years down the road, when the girl is older *breeding age.*

as far as sex, language and violence, i've already stated my piece-no changes necessary.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

NO cause suikoden is fine where it is so there is no reason to change it. :twisted: it one of the best rpgs arounds
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sex- Explicit sex is certainly out of the question. It's not needed, and can be expressed other ways. Suikoden already has a share of sexuality anyway, considering Rina's offer to the border guards, as well as Sheena himself in general. The level of sexuality is at a good level right now; it's not enough to be disgusting and not small enough to be sickeningly innocent.

Violence- Ehhh... this is ifffy. The games are pretty violent of themselves, but I can understand a want for blood in combat. But it just doesn't make a difference to me. The fact that there is blood or not is not a selling point. By taking the violence up a notch the creators would any succeed in alienating the younger target audience. So while I don't think it would be a wholely negative to add, it's just not worth it.

Profanity- I don't have a problem with profanity, and I wouldn't be opposed to characters swearing more. It does make for more dramatic dialogue and characterization as long as its not overused, which is always a big danger.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden is quite mature as it is. Although, I would like to see some more controversial issues within the game such as interclass marriges or couplings, homosexuality, slavery as a moral issue, etc.

Interracial interactions don't seem to be that big of a problem in the Suikoworld, so I didn't list it.
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