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Why are there different races in Suikoden?
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Lilly Pendragon

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:42 pm    Post subject: Why are there different races in Suikoden? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Why is it that they take out the races or tribes. It's not right. In S1 there were elves, dwarves, and kobolds. That was coll. In S2 they took out the dwarves and added the wingers. I was like okay. Then in S3 they decided to take out the kobolds and the wingers and have one of the dwarves and an elve and added the lizards. Why can't they just have one of the old race if they are going to take out a tribe. The wingers were one of my favorites. The kobolds were cool two. So in S4 I don't know what races are in it, but why take out the races. I know one reason, because of the years. At least they can add one of the old races in each Suikoden game. In s3 when they took the Kobolds and the Wingers, I was like this some bull

*use punctuation AND paragraphs; this sounds like rambling, rather than a post*
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Alseid

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Variety?

Richer diversity of races?

Different geographical enviroments (which ensues different species inhabiting them)?


The way i see it, Suikoden 1 was, while revolutionary on several fields (the amount of characters available, the plot, etc..) was rather stereotypical. It had the obligatory elf and dwarf races, some ninjas, an evil witch...

From Suikoden 2 and forth, the series seemed to want to abandon the clichés as much as possible, thus discaring overused elements (elves, dwarves, ninjas, kobolds) and introducing new(or at least less known) elements (wingers, ducks, lizards, nekobolds). For the sake of variety, they always keep one or two representants of the different races around, but that's about it.

Why to do this? Simply to keep the series away from the other, run off the mill, stereotypical RPGs, with cliché filled plots (save the universe from random evil thing, for example), in order to keep it as fresh and new as possible. Which is, in my opinion, one of the biggest appeals of the game.

So, all in all, variating the races we see in each game keeps the series fresh, adds depth to the Suikoden world, sets it appart from the average RPGs, and create more possibilities for future plots.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In S3, there were on fact a Winger, Landis. There were in fact two kobolds, Gau and Muto, two elves, Roland and Nei and one dwarf, Twaikin.

And they decided to even have one dragon, Bright, one griffin, Fubar and one Mantor, Ruby.

The only new non-human people there were the four Lizards, Dupa, Shiba, Bazba and Peggi, and the three ducks, Sgt. Joe, Wilder and Rhett.

I think that they made it diverse enough in SIII.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I agree with Alseid, it's very likely that the geographical location of each game also plays a part in which races appear during the course of the game. With the setting of Suikoden II (Dunan) so close geographically to Suikoden (Toran) it makes reasonable sense that most of the races encountered in Toran are also present in Dunan. The Grasslands, however, are further away so the non-human races encountered in Toran and Dunan may not be as plentiful there, or they simply aren't too fond of the area.

With Suikoden IV, I imagine that some of the races we've encountered won't be present, but we get new races such as the Nekobolds and the mermaids in their place. I don't think Konami left out previous races or tribes just so they could showcase a new race or tribe, but they couldn't make their presence work. For the most part, the cast of Suikoden III consisted of characters native to the Grasslands and the Zexen Confederacy, so I wouldn't expect the area to be swarming with races of the Dunan/Toran region.

As Starslasher pointed out, there is at least one character from practically all of the established races in the Suikoden games, we just don't happen to stumble upon a Kobold, Dwarf or Elf village anywhere in the Grasslands. I would expect to see less returning races in Suikoden IV, though I think I heard somewhere of an Elf village being present in the Island Nations.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's geographical conditions. Humans are everywhere because they're adaptable. The other races just like to hang out in their own home area that they're suited to. A few venture out and explore, but not many. That's from a logical view.

From a story view, it's just a need to create variety. If we have the same elf-human-dwarf relationship every game, it gets boring. Suikoden I explored this cliche relationship. Suikoden II had wingers to show a "lesser" or more downtrodden race. Than Suikoden III goes crazy with the race thing and shows several different tribes. The old ones are still kept around though- just for continuity.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't mind the nice variety of races throughout the Suikoden game world, though if they bring in a few new races with each new Suikoden from here on they will be over doing it too much, so I think they should leave it as it is for now, So when Suikoden 5 comes out, they could just stick with the races they have got, with perhaps maybe just one new race.

By then it would be alright to integrate the races they have such as Dwarves because their tribes have not really played a part since the first Suikoden, so they would not really be repeating themselves, as they haven't played a vital role for quite some time. It is time to awake you lazy dwarves so get up and start getting involved!!!

*use punctuation, please*
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I personaly would have liked to have seen a lycanthrpoe (werewolf) like Bob present in Suikoden III. I mean, according to Richmonds investigations in S2, the Grasslands used to have werewolfs, up untill Windy destroyed their village. And they've even been found in Harmonia as third-class citizens.it would make perfect sense that some of them from Harmonia or survivers of the wrecked villages could have tried to rebuild after the destruction, and that their fellow Grasslanders would have tried to help them out. So far, they are the only non-reacuring race in the series.

Also, sense we're talking about the old racial Cliches, I'm wonderin if someday they will introduce the old half dreed cliche. Would it even be possible for there to be a village of half humane kobolds, or half elven wingers?

sorry if i got off topic
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well I for one like diversity in the whole situation and completelly agree with Alseid.

As for Shrew's comment about humans being adaptable......thats one reason.

Then again you also have to look at the fact that you do control 108 characters plus another 100 or so NPCs and enemy characters. Surely they have diversity but it just adds that much more when you chuck in a few unique races. I serriously don't think any Suikoden fan would truly mind if the races don't make an apperance in a game or two since at this stage (especially since you go to SARS) you should know the layout of the Suikoden World as well as the races, so mixing them up would kinda screw up the plot.

I say just leave it as is. Konami didn't dissapoint thus far, and if you think they did, maybe you're on the wrong forum heh.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

don't forget the vampires! wound unicorns count as race or beasty-species?
Lots of games play with "races" look at the Ronso of FF 10, its like a cat, but with horn...though some think they took the horns from the FF9 summonors and put them there for not reason.

Think cross breeding is possible between the Suiko-verse races? imagen a duck-lizaed hybreed? or those aformentioned winger-elves. Dwarven kobolds. heh...man that would be crazy.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden 3 was made the most diverse on purpose. With all the different new breeds, and re-uses of the old I can't see how you can think it's a let down when it comes to that aspect. Of course, it was made the most diverse to prove it's point about racism and diversity. It's a game with a moral, about how extreamly different people, in how they act, and in how they look(very different in how they look^^) can come togather to accomplish a common goal. Which is important as a theme in todays world, 'specially when there's a ton of games where the point is always either to kill a bunch of people to reach a goal with no real purpose, or just to save the world once again. =P (And just a little extra, the reason Harmonia could not win is because they couldn't respect the aid they received from diverse groups within Harmonia *cough Mantor Trainers*)

Anyways, just rambling over my point about how Suikoden 3 is the most diverse when it comes to races.

And as was mentioned, we see a continuation of new races, and old in Suikoden 4, Mermaids, Nekobolds, elves, the works. ^^
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

They sure did a job well done making the six, I mean, five clans look and feel distinct from each other. You have the fiery Karayans and Lizards, peace-loving Ducks and Chisha, mysterious Alma Kinan and the enigmatic missing-in-action Safir. That's twice the amount of complication compared to the Great Forest and Two River City. Instead of creating smaller regions with different ideals (a la the City-States), they went all-out and did this instead.

I quite like it, honestly.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yep... Well, with racial diversity, S3 is the best. It has all the races introduced in Suikoden, excluding the more 'special' ones like lycanthropes and vampires.

And well, it would seem quite apprent that racial harmony is within the scope of suikoden's plot line. I mean, in all three suikodens, there has been some form of plot involving racial harmony... Great forest tiff in S1 with Kirkis running about, Two River incident in S2, and in S3, it's shown the great prejudice between Zexens and the Grasslands.

Aside from in game plots, Konami themselves seem to enjoy throwing in little stuff that comes from various real cultures. For example, the languages used for their theme songs... I know the opening themes and Anallee's songs and stuff are all different languages...

The names used in Suikoden are of many languages as well, including not just English, Japanese and Chinese, but also German, French and stuff like that.

Even the weapon names are quite diverse. For example, Stallion's bows, two of them are named after Indian Gods, and the other one, i have no idea what it is... And Rhett's halberd is called Makan, Makanan for the first two levels which actually means 'eat' and 'food' in Malay... It greatly shows Rhett's character... And well, Konami actually used a less common language like Malay to potray that. His final weapon name Luan Makan has no meaning for the 'Luan'. It's just a made up word... Another malay word i recognise from the weapons is Jimba's final weapon name, Matahari. It means Sun in Malay... I think there're more words taken from various languages used as weapon names, but unfortunately, my linguistics are not that great...

They'll employ small little things like that to add into the game. Using different languages in naming various stuff... Aside from that, Konami has made an effort to show distinct cultural difference between the various nations. Countries like Zexen, Grasslands, Harmonia, Dunan and Toran are all quite different one way or another.

Even within the City-States of Jowston in S2, the various states showed different cultural patterns. States like South Window and Muse felt more asian, while Greenhill and Matilda had a more western feel. Even with the names of the people from these places. Tinto just felt.... Middle east....

But anyway, Konami's efforts to input all these minute details, extracted from the real world, real cultures and real languages and other interesting stuff is another reason why Suikoden is so wonderful...

Now i have no idea why i went on and rambled about all these, but well, just some thoughts triggered i suppose...
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's geography.

Elves and Dwarves (and a few kobolds) were in Suikoden because they live near the Scarlet Moon Empire, in the Great Forest.

In Suikoden II, the kobolds and wingers were more predominant because lots and lots of them live in the Dunan/Two River region.

SIII, Elves don't live in the Grassland/Zexen area. Neither do dwarves. Or kobolds. It makes sense that there aren't as many of them there. We do, however, have the ducks and lizards.

Suikoden IV adds mermaids.

As Kobold said, one of Suikoden's major themes involves racial diversity. The different cultures and peoples. That's what sets Suikoden apart from the other fantasy medieval video games.

Of course, if you insist on looking at Suikoden only as gameplay, and no storyline, you could say that Konami goes above and beyond the call of duty by adding more races, instead of just rehashing, rehashing, rehashing, rehashing.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I wouldn't like suikoden as much if there were only humans. I love the variety of races. Each race has its own background, special traits, strengths and weaknesses, and well I really go for creativity among games.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think they should stop adding races. They're getting too many (And not very original ones either). Duck people, I didn't like, but I can deal with one lame race. But now beaver people? Ugh, are they gonna do that every game?
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