Right to bear arms

[Snowe Vingerhut]

I was discussing with a friend recently about the pros and cons of the right to bear arms, and I thought this would be a good question for a forum, so...

What is your take on a countries policy to give it's citizens the right to bear arms?

[adrich]

[Vextor]

As stated in Article II, the right to bear arms is stipulated with the assumption that a well regulated militia is necessary to secure a free state. This was true back when the USA was born, because the military used to be owned by the sovereign, and did not belong to the people.

Because our current organization of the US government allows the existence of a volunteer army, perhaps Article II is outdated. Either that, or there should be more militias in the USA.

[Axiose]

I don't know much about the American Constitution (other than what I've heard from others, or seen on The Simpsons of course), but in Britain, we don't have a law stipulating that it is a right to own handguns.

My Grandfather has a rifle, as does my uncle, but they both live on farms and are used solely for shooting birds. I'm not to sure how the system works in all honesty. I understand in America, to get a gun legally, you need to have a waiting period or something so you can be checked out. And to be even more honest, I don't know how it works here. Some police in airports carry guns, whilst the police in general are unarmed.

But in general, I really dislike guns. It goes along the lines that you can use a gun to protect yourself, your family and your country; but to me, it seems silly, as you can protect yourself with a sword for example...but if you walked down New York City with a broadsword or a samurai sword poking out of your belt, you might get treated alot differently.

I know it probably sounds a little cliched, but as I see it, guns, and specifically handguns which are easy to conceal and handle, have the power to take a laugh far easier than most weapons, and I see no other purpose for guns other than to take life. Knives can take lives also, but they have blatant other docile uses. So in a long winded way, no, I don't think any country should give it's citizens a free right to bear arms.

(By the way, can someone clear up any confusion I have about the availabilty of weapons in the States and the UK)
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[Axiose] [Fliktor]

[Schala-Kid]

[Vextor]

All you need to do in the USA to own a gun is to have a background check done on yourself. However, if you are lucky enough to find a gun show, you can buy one without a background check (legally).

[Agahnim]

I think the majorty of people are too quick to resort to whatever means of violence they can lay their hands on, regardless of the consequences. In the UK, you don't get any where near that many murders, even as a ratio in comparison to the respective populations of the countries, because people dont't have such readily available instant killing machines in the UK.

Maybe they should devise an intelligence test for people who want to carry guns. Mind you, I feel the same about cars.. some people just shouldn't be allowed to drive.

GD
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"The strong manly ones in life are those who understand the meaning of the word patience."

[Starslasher]

Well, I don't know about the law in Pakistan, but i know that pretty much everyone has a gun, or at least learned to handle one. No liscensing, just go get one in the northern provinces :P . Heck, there are still warring tribes up north. Yet is doesn't seem to be the government's concern. :|

As for me, i handled my fair share of air rifles.
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Guardian of Greenhill & Devoted Protector of Oulan



Bork! Bork! Bork!

[Calupict]

In Indonesia, well it easier to find illegal weapon because to have the legal one is very difficult. In conflict area you can got it though.

Well but admit my father have an airgun (can we count it?). But for me if you don't have a specific reason like you are a hunter or you are a police you need not gun.

[Snowe Vingerhut]

In America, I knew that the original reason to bear arms was to keep the newly formed government in check.
Nowadays, I would think it would really take some major changes in the system to really have to use your gun for that reason today in this country(America). So for that reason, I think it's not neccesary.

All the same I am probably going to get a conceled weapons permit.
The main reason I'm getting one is because I do a lot of hiking alone in the woods.
Is it because of wild animals? Yeah right. The occurance of running into a dangerous wild animal that will attack you in my area of the Rocky Mountains is fairly slim, for most run away when they either hear or smell you(unless really hungry or protecting their home).
My reason is almost soley because of people in society that own guns that use them for criminal acitivity.
The last time I was hiking in the woods I was threatened and chased by people doing something suspect in the woods who most likely had weapons.
I was able to hike out over the top of a mountain because I was a much better hiker than them...but I can't say I wouldn't have liked to have that extra card in my pocket just in case, because it can really make you really feel helpless without any weapon of your own when others probably have them.

I doubt I would carry one in my neighborhood even though it is right next to a real cesspool of a neighborhood(drug dealers, gangsters, psychos...etc.), because you almost can always use bluster and attitude instead of any real action to deter people looking to use force on you for whatever reason.
I also work nights, and have run into lots of people that are a bit more than unstable, but we have never needed a real reason to have a firearm.
The only time at work I came into contact with a firearm was when I got robbed at gunpoint...and if I had a gun then it would have been useless since he(robber) has the advantage of suprise.
It's also company policy that you can't have weapons on the premises, of course.

So do I support guns or not? Well, I was hoping to hear more from people in countries where firearms are outlawed to see what kind of difference it makes in their society not to have them.
If I find that I think it would be a worthwhile thing not to support them, then in all likelyhood I will support not having them in society.
But for now I have reactionary reasons for wanting to possess one...right or wrong? Well, wrong of course..if this was a perfect world and we could live in utopia, but not everybody wants that dream of a docile society.
I will probably never use it, but since almost anyone else can have one in my country regardless of what they will use it for, then frankly I would like to counter that and have one of my own.

More opinions from people who live in countries with stiff anti-gun laws would be helpful in this discussion.

[Daniel Blackhand]

I don't have a problem with people owning a gun because there are a lot of people who hunt or feel they need one to protect their families. I do have a problem with people being allowed to own assault rifles. I know people who own AK-47's which are only used for military purpose.
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[KoRnholio]

Somebody owning a handgun for self-defense is risky. Anti-gun proponents will cite the statistic that a large amount of people are injured or killed by their own handgun as the robber or mugger uses it on them. Somebody told me once that if you're gonna get a handgun for self-defense, you have to be psychologically prepared to kill someone, or its a mistake. If you're not ready to take another humans life, or even if you're gonna flinch/hesitate when it comes down to it, you're gonna do more harm than good to yourself, because that gives the attacker a chance to grab your gun or something of that nature. I think its safe to say that most of those people who get killed by their own guns are the people that get a gun without being prepared to kill someone.

With that said, I believe that's a decision people need to make for themselves, and should have the opportunity to own a gun if so desired. If someone is gonna get a gun unprepared, and it ends up harming them, thats their problem, not that of the person who needs a gun to protect themself and knows properly how to use it.

[Vextor]

As far as Japan is concerned, gun ownership is simply illegal. Only those with hunting permits are allowed to have rifles, but that is very rare. Otherwise, only the police and military own firearms. A small number of mafia (yakuza) and others illegally own firearms, but people rarely get killed by guns, and murder happens very rarely. You can generally feel safe walking around the streets at night.

Interestingly, Japan used to be the nation with the most number of firearms. That was back in the early 1600s when Japan was going through a massive civil war. They imported guns through Christian missionaries and started making them themselves. By the mid 1600s when the civil war was over, the government no longer had any idea who owned guns, and thus they issued a law that forbid gun ownership. Those who broke that law were killed.

[Solitude]

I agree with KoRnholio, if your going to have a gun you should be prepared to use it. I've heard that a majority of people in the heartland of America own guns and because of this robbery is way down compared to other places. Its logical if you think about it, I mean if you knew that 7 out of every 10 people owned a gun would you take the chance of robing someone. I mean nobody in their right mind would rob someone with a gun.

As for my view on the issue I can't really say. It doesn't really bother me if people own guns but then again I don't want complete loonies owning them either. I guess I have mixed fealing about it.

[Gil-galad]

Actually-- the reason the robbery is so low in the country is because, for one, there is a whole lot less people to do the robbing, and two, there's alot less people to rob. When you think about it that way it makes alot more sense. And if you add to the fact that people who live in the country go hunting, while those in the city most usually do not, owning a gun in the country still makes alot more sense.

In my opinion, nobody should own a gun unless they have a hunting permit, and even then , it's stupid to sell high power guns over the counter. To hunt there's no need to have a military grade machine gun(AK-47's, for instance). -_-

The 'Right to Bear Arms' made much more sense when the constitution was made, considering that the army didn't supply you with weapons then, if you were in the military you used your own weapon. And most people went out and hunted for their dinner, it's just simply not the same as it was 200 years ago, and it's about time some people realised that.

Self defense is another issue, but if nobody was aloud to have a gun, why should you need to have a gun to defend yourself with in the first place?
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