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Canadian Seal Hunt: Needless slaughter? or Nessasary action?
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Filipe

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:18 pm    Post subject: Canadian Seal Hunt: Needless slaughter? or Nessasary action? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Some people may have heard about the big deal being made about this years Canadian Seal hunt. Now some of you well most of you anyway, probably dont know why this is done, and I cant really blame you. The fact is in eastern Canada the seal population seems to be booming, and thus the fishing industry is suffering as a result. Seals eats fish obviously so the more seal there are the more they eat, the more they eat the fewer fish there are depleting the stocks for right now, and in the future. So what they have to do is cull the herd so to speak, controlling the seal population, so that the fish stocks can be maintained. This hunt is limited to a certain percentage only, and thus somewhat limited so they dont just go out there and kill them en masse. I think there is also some sort of native tradition behind this or something of that nature, however I am not entirely sure what is behind it.

Now doing some reading on the reasons for the hunt, information mind you that is hard to find since a good deal of sites are against it, and show only one side. I found that the reasoning for the hunt is two fold, first off it's hunting for the fur to sell because there is a market for it, but you know if people werent willing to buy it they wouldnt be going for that. The other portion is that on the eastern coast of Canada you would notice that there are no sharks or whales. They are not there to control the seal population, so as a result the seal population is enormous right now, and are eating up all the fish stocks. So, with it's natural predators all gone they are freely eating up all the fish, which is just butchering the east coast fishing industry. Adding into this is the fact that the very lifeblood of those provinces is their fishing industry, and their reliance on what they can catch for food, and selling makes this problem paramount. These are the two reasons for all of this.

The reasons against it are a little more graphic, and for those of you who might be severely saddened, and really horrified at it should just skip this paragraph. You see one of the problems with what is being done, is that those being killed off are the baby seals. Killing the adults would just be overkill, considering the babies need them to survive ie feeding them. It's very sad that baby seals are the ones being killed off, but thats not even the part that makes a persons skin crawl. It's how these baby seals are killed off that makes me cringe even to mention it. You see after clubbing the baby seal on the head, they proceed to skin the seal of it's fur and pelt, while the seal is still alive. Now this isnt a confirmed practice, and might just be propoganda on the part of activists but if true I dont even want to think about it.

So my opinion, well considering that the seals, and the sea lions have no natural enemies considering those have been hunted to near extinction(sharks, and whales) we have to hunt them at some point. I have also learned, are you Canadians out there aware that the Canadian goverment are actually paying fisherman in the Maritimes not to fish? The stocks are so low thanks to over fishing by other countries, and over population of the seals and sea lions they are paying them to sit at home. With no sharks or whales to kill the seals, and sea lions the populations are absolutely exploding to the point where seals are actually drowning. Their weight are pushing on the ice so much since they are so incredibly crowded with so many of them, that the ice breaks, and they drown. Until the fish stocks can be repaired to be sustainable, and even then for that matter. It's a fact of life until the populations of the sharks, and whales come back to the point that they can do so for us. We have to continue moderating the amount of seals and sea lions that are killed of course, since we have to show some restraint. Also the ways that the killing is taking place needs to continue to be monitored of course. Thats just my take on it.

So the final question to you becomes: At what point with massive population explosion of these species, do we have to decide to "kull the herd"?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Why don't the canadians start eating seals then? They can't taste that bad.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't know much about Canadian wildlife laws and all that, but killing off baby seals does seem a little extreme.

I understand that the seals are eating all the fish and it ruins the fisherman's catchings, but is the fishing industry that big in Canada to actually pay people to hunt down baby seals? I thought there was a wildlife protection law that would take care of over-population of certain animlas, especially in a country as progressive as Canada.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sars wrote:
Why don't the canadians start eating seals then? They can't taste that bad.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/edmonds/edmonds228.html

Quote:
I'll bet they taste like a marine version of veal. When you're finished with the meat, you can make wonderful garments out of the fur.
:D
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The seal hunt is a load of crap. It reflects the mentalities of the people who allow it- and really shows you how "ethically evolved" we as people are when such a massacre is condoned annually.

The seal hunt accounts for less than 3% of the fisheries profit that Canada makes each year. Furthermore, a "they're decimating the cod <or insert whatever else here>" stance is laughable and downright flawed when you realize that Canada, especially Atlantic Canada, has a problem with overfishing anyway. Second furthermore, a staggering amount of numbers killed are less than three months old. Are baby seals really doing a number on the marine population right out here in our waters? If you're going to hunt them to maintain species numbers, why bludgeon them to death the way they do? Isn't there a way around the inhumanity of the entire, obscene act?

The government falls back on its usual, weak defense. The seal population is no more harmless to any species out there than we as humans are. 300 000 annually is a devastating number. They don't need to be killed the way they do. And ask yourself:

Shouldn't mother nature sort this problem out on its own? Why do humans have to intervene if another species is in a crisis because we forced them into one?

On the other side, Newfoundland and Labrador are really hard up for jobs. There are so many coastal towns where people rely on fishing and hunting to make ends meet, to barely stay alive. If we decimate their trade by right, then what are we doing to these people who have little or no place to go when it comes to work?

Only arguable defense I could find. I hope the seal hunt ends for good ASAP.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

To be honest I don't really care, I think there are much more pressing matters happening around the world that deserve everyone's attention instead of some seals.

Really, they probably don't taste that bad anyway.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm watching Mike Duffy live right now and they're talking about the seal hunt right now.

First of all, I'm sure that you've heard about the boycott of Canadian seafood in American restaurants. http://www.sealhunt.ca/MainPages/AboutUs.html

They're claiming extraordinary success in the venture. However, a consumer watchdog group contacted many of the restaurants and began to inquire exactly what the nature of their boycott was. One of the men just said that a majority of the restaurants did not even serve Canadian seafood to begin with, and that there were even vegetarian and vegan restaurants on that list. Out of the numbers that were quoted (which I can't find. Later, I'll try to look them up again) was that only 13% of the listed restaurants actually boycotted Canadian-bought seafood.

Another point that was brought up was that Canadian Law has restrictions on the kinds of seals that are hunted. They are the only nation in the world to have these kinds of restrictions, and they also actively enforce this law. Nations like Norway and the United States do not have these laws.

Finally, a very vocal, outspoken man (I hope I can find a video clip of the broadcast) made a powerful statement saying that the only reason that animal activists target the Canadian Seal Hunt is because it is the only nation in the world where the activists are allowed to bring cameras so close to the baby seals, and to the hunt itself, and that it is all motivated by a single factor -- money. There is no denying that cute, cuddly things draw people in... take a look at the angry responses of Save Toby, where a man who has a cute fuzzy rabbit threatens to eat him unless he raises $50 000 in donations. This brought outrage among animal activists and casual viewers, even though bunnies are extremely disposable animals.

The animal rights activist said that there is a lot of support for the movement, and that there are a number of big-name celebrities on their side. She was saying that the laws have loopholes, and that those laws do not discount the fact that the seals being clubbed are still babies, and that many people do not club them properly.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
To be honest I don't really care, I think there are much more pressing matters happening around the world that deserve everyone's attention instead of some seals.

Really, they probably don't taste that bad anyway


Whether they taste good or bad isn't the point. The point is, a portion of the Canadian society is allowing a barbaric and inhumane treatment of animals which further goes into a reflection of human nature in general. There's more to the issue than "seals are dying".

Quote:
Finally, a very vocal, outspoken man (I hope I can find a video clip of the broadcast) made a powerful statement saying that the only reason that animal activists target the Canadian Seal Hunt is because it is the only nation in the world where the activists are allowed to bring cameras so close to the baby seals, and to the hunt itself, and that it is all motivated by a single factor -- money.


Money making or not, there are many animal rights activists out there lobbying for this to stop. If someone makes a million off exposing such cruelty which leads to the end of it, then swell. I don't know why some people bother even trying to "expose" the mentalities behind those against the seal hunt. Is that even the issue at hand? No, that's directing attention away and has nothing to do with whether seals deserve to be slaughtered the way they do. Same thing can be said about the "cute" stance. Yes, seals are irresistable and pull at our heart strings, but there are still those out there lobbying for the end of testing on mice. Again, I don't see what the problem is, as long as all those seal-fans can help put an end to the slaughter, even if their reasons for doing so are superficial.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Arcana says:
Quote:
Quote:
I'll bet they taste like a marine version of veal. When you're finished with the meat, you can make wonderful garments out of the fur.

:D


Now I get why 'Veal' and 'Seal' rhyme! ;)

St. Ajora says:
Quote:
a staggering amount of numbers killed are less than three months old. Are baby seals really doing a number on the marine population right out here in our waters?


It makes sense, considering in order to grow a baby seal would need to eat a lot of fish.

You guys want to know what I think? I agree with the article, that being clubbed probably hurts a lot less than beaing smashed by a polar bear and ripped open with its jaws. Animals kill each other, that's the way the world works. If we share 98.6% of our genes with some monkeys, the only real difference between animals and people is reason. If we didn't have reason and other animals did, we'd be being locked up and ground into food for whoever our animal superiors were (just like we do to them, and which also happens to be the reason that animal rights activists can go eat ass). It's not just human nature, but the same instinct shared by all animals on this planet.

The only more humane way of death I can think of would be some kind of big ass bomb, but then that would screw us over as well.

And of course, if there gets to be too many seals that eat the already-decimated Maritime fish population, they'll starve to death, and that's much better than being bludgeoned on the head. The whole 'cute' defense makes me sick as well, because people who only value appearances are a plague on mankind and should be put on a rocket and shot into space. Just because something is cute doesn't always mean that it's good.

I do wonder what a Seal Parmigiana would taste like, though...
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You see the two things that were somewhat flawed about the comments that were made by St Ajora in his/her first post. You see you are mistaken in the fact that if you havent noticed being Canadian yourself, you are right that we Canadians, and the British, Americans, Portugese etc have severely depleted the fish stocks... in the past. Those three little words are the key to that statement, because it is now a known fact that Canadians are now guarding the fish stocks, and as I mentioned earlier the Canadians arent fishing. In fact the goverment to keep the stocks up, are actually paying the fisherman to supplement their income so they wont go out there fishing. Secondly all this talk about the killing of three month old seals en masse like you seem to be insinuating, is unproven propoganda put out by the activists. You see before the laws came into place, and the seal hunt was goverment controlled, yes they would be their killing baby seals too. However it goes right back to the earlier problem that past tense doesnt apply right now that they can actually prove. You see it's just like if I were to come here and say " Today I was kidnapped by aliens, and their leader was Bigfoot, and we travled around the galaxy". Of course some people for some reason might believe me, however where would the proof be that any of it actually happens right now?

As far as this whole fishing industry all that important to Canada deal goes, no not really to the rest of Canada but to that region absolutely. The Province of Newfoundland's very existence and it's economic lifeblood comes as a result of the fishing industry, and all that comes along with it. They desperately rely on it, and everyone who's from Canada debating this knows that for decades thanks to low fish stocks their economy has been suffering terribly. The fishing industry is what keeps their province going, and frankly thats just a fact of life for them, so something needs to be done to protect their livelyhoods.

However, you would think ok, the seals have predators dont they, to control the population like polar bears, sharks, and of course whales. Now I dont know if you have noticed, but there arent a whole lot of polar bears in Newfoundland to go hunt those seals are there? What about the sharks, and the whales who also eat the seals? Well those have been hunted to near extinction in the past, and only through efforts going on right now, are the populations starting to come back. However that will take a good deal of time, and the population explosions of the seals are not going to end, any time in the near future without trimming down the numbers. You know it sucks that it needs to be done, and I fully agree, however that does not change the fact that the fish stocks need to be secured, and the only way to do so is kull the herd so to speak of the seals, and sea lions.

I am not even going to touch on the subject of celebrity hypocricy when it comes to animal rights activism. They say dont kill the seals, yet they continue to wear fur, or something of that nature, and worse yet. You see even those who are all about protecting the animals have no problem wearing diamonds, and other jewels do they? Canadian diamonds are clean, but Debeers the largest producer of diamonds in the world, are far from picky about where they get their diamonds from. I am sure I am not the only one who has heard more than once the term "Blood Diamonds". Where men, women, and children are sold into slavery in Africa to work the diamond mines, butchered constantly for the smallest little mistake. Children literally having their arms chopped off right in front of their parents. I dont see these celebrities boycotting these diamonds where countless numbers of people are suffering in ways that even thinking about it makes me cringe.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Nature will intervine eventually, the hunting is just perpetuating the cycle.

When there get too many seals there won't be enough food to go round, when this happens seals will start to die of starvtion and malnutrition, this will lower the population ratio of Seal:Fish. With less preditors the fish stocks can begin to replenish themselves, with this some Sharks and Whales should come (unless Canadian fishermen have completely destroyed the population in there waters and surroounding areas).

Obviously there will now be more Fish, so the Seals will start annother population boom, but this time they DO have preditors in the water which will make it easier for the fidher men because the numbers of seals will be controlled.

The seals are being unfairly blamed, man doesn't own the fish, they arn't Canadian fish, they are just fish. The real culprit of this broken eco system are those that overfished and destroyed the Shark/Whale populus.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Let Mother Nature do it. There is no space for killing seals. How about if you were the seal? You're just eating fish peacefully minding no one but then be hunted and killed with no where to go.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
You see you are mistaken in the fact that if you havent noticed being Canadian yourself, you are right that we Canadians, and the British, Americans, Portugese etc have severely depleted the fish stocks... in the past.


In the past? No, right now. In the past, 10 years ago, today and tomorrow. This isn't a problem of the past, a problem behind us. This is why Aquaculture and fishing border disputes and fishing seasons exist- because there's simply not enough marine life to live on as there used to be centuries ago. I live on the coast, I hear fishermen and mariners bickering about this in some form or another every other day.

Quote:
Those three little words are the key to that statement, because it is now a known fact that Canadians are now guarding the fish stocks, and as I mentioned earlier the Canadians arent fishing


Uh, well, I don't know why local grocers sell small quanties of largely high-priced fish and shellfish then if we aren't fishing at all. Canadians look like they're "guarding" the fish stocks, but this takes years, decades of obeying laws and working to cultivate marine life just to keep up with the ecological and environmental damage we have caused to the ocean.

Quote:
In fact the goverment to keep the stocks up, are actually paying the fisherman to supplement their income so they wont go out there fishing.


The government *pays* fishermen? Do you live in Nova Scotia or Newfoundland and hear men actually say that they're living off the government and they have no reason to fish at all? If they're getting compensation, it's very little. The government craps on fishermen, in the Newfoundland and Labrador region especially. This is why the seal hunt exists in the first place.

Quote:
Secondly all this talk about the killing of three month old seals en masse like you seem to be insinuating, is unproven propoganda put out by the activists.


Oh, so, since the seal hunt has been given an unparalled amount of media exposure, information is actually being *covered* up and put out by the activists that receive absolutely no backlash from the seal hunters themselves proving otherwise? Until you have proof that there is no proof, your claims are as invalid as mine.

Quote:
You see it's just like if I were to come here and say " Today I was kidnapped by aliens, and their leader was Bigfoot, and we travled around the galaxy


But the difference is here, we've all watched baby seals being clubbed to death on the ice. I haven't seen Bigfoot on television yet. THat's comparing apples and oranges.

Quote:
As far as this whole fishing industry all that important to Canada deal goes, no not really to the rest of Canada but to that region absolutely. The Province of Newfoundland's very existence and it's economic lifeblood comes as a result of the fishing industry, and all that comes along with it. They desperately rely on it, and everyone who's from Canada debating this knows that for decades thanks to low fish stocks their economy has been suffering terribly. The fishing industry is what keeps their province going, and frankly thats just a fact of life for them, so something needs to be done to protect their livelyhoods.


Newfoundland also needs to grow up and start living with the rest of Canada. No, the province as a whole doesn't rely solely on the fishing industry. We're talking about coastal, remote towns that don't have a lot of potential for economic growth. The lower middle class, even the poor. They don't have anything else. Is the entire province of NFLD like that? Of course not. You make it sound like everyone is starving to death. The situation isn't that widespread which begs the question of why there has to be so much massacre. Why doesn't the government focus on building up NFLD and Labrador in other industries instead of sending men out on the ice annually to hunt thousands of seals to death and ignoring them for the rest of the year?

Quote:
Now I dont know if you have noticed, but there arent a whole lot of polar bears in Newfoundland to go hunt those seals are there? What about the sharks, and the whales who also eat the seals? Well those have been hunted to near extinction in the past, and only through efforts going on right now, are the populations starting to come back. However that will take a good deal of time, and the population explosions of the seals are not going to end, any time in the near future without trimming down the numbers.


And where are your statistics? You just said certain whales and sharks have been hunted to near extinction- how come this doesn't ring a bell for you that harp seals are also at risk of sucumbing to the same fate? What makes them any different?

Quote:
and I fully agree, however that does not change the fact that the fish stocks need to be secured, and the only way to do so is kull the herd so to speak of the seals, and sea lions.


Dude, we're not talking about the world's fish being on the brink of being eaten by the big bad seals. We're talking primarily cod fish.

Quote:
I am not even going to touch on the subject of celebrity hypocricy when it comes to animal rights activism. They say dont kill the seals, yet they continue to wear fur, or something of that nature, and worse yet


Some do, some don't some aren't even aware of it.

Furthermore, I find it horrific that hardly anyone touched upon the treatment of seals during hunting. It's all about economics to some it seems. If you're so horrified by the treatment of children in Africa Filipe, than I should assume that you're also horrified by the way seals are bashed to a bloody pulp and then possibly skinned alive. But you don't seem to be contesting that fact, bringing about this whole hypocrisy around again in a vicious cycle, man...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seal hunting huh? Sounds fun. Lets eat some seal im hungary.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

St. Ajore wrote:
Furthermore, I find it horrific that hardly anyone touched upon the treatment of seals during hunting. It's all about economics to some it seems. If you're so horrified by the treatment of children in Africa Filipe, than I should assume that you're also horrified by the way seals are bashed to a bloody pulp and then possibly skinned alive. But you don't seem to be contesting that fact, bringing about this whole hypocrisy around again in a vicious cycle, man...


Wait.... i've heard this 2 or three times now... you people want us to treat animals like they're people?

I'm supposed to care about the animals feelings before i kill it now?

And you're comparing the treatment of african children being used as slaves in diamond mines to the slaughtering of seals?

Seals are not people. Neither are fish, sharks, monkeys, foxes, mice, rabbits, whales or any other species on earth. Any person who claims that any other animal deserves its life more than mine should also go to their local bear cave, and speak in a firm voice to the bear about how it's wrong to kill other animals for it's food, or to their local ocean and find the sharks to give them the same lesson using sign language... Be sure to get REAL CLOSE so that the bears and sharks understand you too....

To declare that non-human animals deserve the treatment we would wish upon ourselves is complete poppycock (and i use this term because other more "descriptive" terms would be censored). It may not be humane to beat a seal to death with a club (and really, it only takes two strikes, tops, if you know what you're doing), but guess what! Seals aren't human!

To demand that animals deserves the same rights as human beings is pretty silly.. because guess what'll happens when the PETA members win, and we're all vegetarians... We'll all have to stop eating vegetables too because it takes away from the food that the animals we're sharing the planet with.... And the poor animals, they deserve it all.... :cry:
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