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Tir McDohl becoming cynical and dark??
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josiskrazy




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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:29 am    Post subject: Tir McDohl becoming cynical and dark?? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i read on wikipedia.org...

Quote:

In the novelizations, it is hinted that Tir became cynical as he grew older, turning dark, brooding, and willing to sacrifice anything to achieve an end. Though it is not confirmed as a whole, it can be theorized that his bearing of the weight of the cursed rune has long since affected his mind.


i was quite surprise to read that...does anyone have more details on it? like specific examples of him becoming a little darker?

its a bit strange to hear someone like him becoming like so...but intriguing.
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Flamo Bringer

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

How did they come with such a speculation while Konami is the only one who makes the game :?
and probably that is one of the side effects of bearing the True Rune, just like people saying that Hikusaak is cursed by the Circle Rune itself :)
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Tir McDohl becoming cynical and dark?? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

josiskrazy wrote:
i read on wikipedia.org...

Quote:

In the novelizations, it is hinted that Tir became cynical as he grew older, turning dark, brooding, and willing to sacrifice anything to achieve an end. Though it is not confirmed as a whole, it can be theorized that his bearing of the weight of the cursed rune has long since affected his mind.


i was quite surprise to read that...does anyone have more details on it? like specific examples of him becoming a little darker?

its a bit strange to hear someone like him becoming like so...but intriguing.


The games also subtly hints at it. The game itself doesn't give away too much, obviously, seeing as you're following a set plot but Tir's appearance in Suikoden II can be taken to show a hint of his suffering under the Rune of Life and Death, his basic refusal to rescue Ko until persuaded to by Gremio for example.

It can be taken a lot of ways, and I'm sure a lot of people will jump in to point out it's a heck of a leap to take with a character with virtually no dialogue in the games, but I'm willing to accept it, personally.

As for the novelisation itself, I wouldn't have a clue. Can't read Japanese, y'see.
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Noot

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wikipedia is a site where anybody can edit in what they want, so it's by no means an official account of what happens to Tir later in life. It makes sense and all, but it's not canon.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

John Layfield wrote:
The games also subtly hints at it.


That's the general impression I got too. He seemed really apatheic of much of the events going on. He goes grudgingly to rescue Ko, almost shrugging off Gremio in the Banner Inn. The whole fact that he refuses to take the throne of the Toran Republic is another indication. Even his battle stance. It's looks like he sighs periodically. Although, maybe I'm just over-analysing this...

Well, holding a Rune that takes the life of those around him must harry him somewhat. I wonder how long Gremio lasted...
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nupandu




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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

it could be possible because he is the current bearer of the soul eater...
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think it's just a phase in possession of the rune, Ted was a complete loner 150 years into his bearing of the Soul Eater (Suikoden IV), but in Suikoden I he seems to have retained his compassion and understanding with the help of Tir. Maybe Tir will start to fear that the Soul Eater will kill anyone he has a relationship with, and as such doesn't want to interact with anyone out of this fear.

John Layfield wrote:
The games also subtly hints at it. The game itself doesn't give away too much, obviously, seeing as you're following a set plot but Tir's appearance in Suikoden II can be taken to show a hint of his suffering under the Rune of Life and Death, his basic refusal to rescue Ko until persuaded to by Gremio for example.

It can be taken a lot of ways, and I'm sure a lot of people will jump in to point out it's a heck of a leap to take with a character with virtually no dialogue in the games, but I'm willing to accept it, personally.


Yeah it does show a slight change of character from Tir, even if we hardly knew he had any character at all to begin with.
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Scarlet Assassin

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The problem with these examples is that we can't be sure he wouldn't have done the same thing in the first game, before and after he got the rune. He never speaks so we can't be absolutely sure that his mannerisms didn't reflect this reluctance and cynicism to begin with.

Other than that, last I remember hearing, the novels aren't canonical to begin with. The novel could say something directly and it could be the opposite in the true storyline. Given the flimsy if not non-existant authority the novelizations have combined with the fact that the information was posted on Wikipedia and it was stated that these changes were only "implied' (A word that leaves everything to perception of the reader) I would be hard pressed to put any stock in the accusations.

While it may be true that Tir becomes cynical later in life, I don't trust the sources and I can't agree with the immediate implication that it is the weight of the rune warping him.
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Dura Sinai




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, come on let's face it, it seems that all the true rune bearers seem to have a certain weight on them. None of them are happy carefree people. Those with some of the weightier curses naturally can influence its bearer. Despite that, imagine the imact on someone who while having eternal life has to see those around them grow old and die. We've yet to see that extensively but even without a rune prone to take the bearer or those close to him/her's life it can force a rune bearer to more or less dissapear.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I never actually got that impression from Tir. I always saw him as a nervously cautious and fearful Rune Bearer. I'm mainly referring to the rescue of Ko with this. It didn't seem so much of a refusal to me as it did Tir's fear, cautiousness, and nervousness of the Rune's power.

As for him being dark and brooding, I never got that either. I found him to be a sad character, designed to be that way (and it shows), but always looking to help if he could. I like the character of Tir just because of that willingness to try his best, despite the fact he fears his Rune. If anything, I think Tir is actually a rather cheerful character...

Just my imagery, anyway.
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

I wonder how long Gremio lasted...

Up until about Scarlettica Castle, remember? Which brings up an interesting question... I wonder if the soul eater CAN cause him to die again?

If anything, Tir is depressed, and is begining to show it. There was the shock of losing Gremio, which he obviously has a strong affection towards, then having to kill his own father, then losing his best friend. You'd have to be dark and cynical already to not be affected by tragic events like those.
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Dragonstar13

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Mitchell wrote:
I never actually got that impression from Tir. I always saw him as a nervously cautious and fearful Rune Bearer. I'm mainly referring to the rescue of Ko with this. It didn't seem so much of a refusal to me as it did Tir's fear, cautiousness, and nervousness of the Rune's power.

As for him being dark and brooding, I never got that either. I found him to be a sad character, designed to be that way (and it shows), but always looking to help if he could. I like the character of Tir just because of that willingness to try his best, despite the fact he fears his Rune. If anything, I think Tir is actually a rather cheerful character...

Just my imagery, anyway.

Actually, that was the impression I got as well. Although, this is difficult since Tir doesn't talk at all during his cameo in S2. I think Tir is afraid of his rune, but he isn't the type to abandon others when they need help. His rune reacting maybe him not getting used it as of yet. Most of the Rune holders usually faint and have difficulties bearing it. So it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case with Tir.
Also, I don't think he's on the verge of becoming a dark character either, in Suikoden Gaiden, Nash spots him with Kasumi. This may just be me, but he didn't really look too depressed. Not happy, but he seemed to be doing okay. This of course would be on the outside, maybe in the inside he's suffering and we don't know it.
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

When did that game take place? Wasn't that one before Suikoden 2?
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Zeik Tuvai

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
When did that game take place? Wasn't that one before Suikoden 2?

From my understanding, the timeline of games has been...

Suikoden IV=>Suikoden V=>Suikoden I=>Suikoden II=>Suikoden III
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikogaiden I runs concurrent to Suikoden II (460, during the Dunan Unification War), while Suikogaiden II takes place the year after (461).
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