| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Who is your favorite Strategist in Suikoden? |
| Albert Silverberg |
|
10% |
[ 27 ] |
| Apple |
|
4% |
[ 12 ] |
| Caesar Silverberg |
|
5% |
[ 15 ] |
| Dios |
|
1% |
[ 4 ] |
| Klaus Windamier |
|
4% |
[ 11 ] |
| Leon Silverberg |
|
13% |
[ 35 ] |
| Mathiu Silverberg |
|
11% |
[ 30 ] |
| Nash Latkje |
|
2% |
[ 6 ] |
| Salome Harras |
|
7% |
[ 21 ] |
| Sebastian |
|
0% |
[ 1 ] |
| Jess |
|
0% |
[ 2 ] |
| Shu |
|
38% |
[ 104 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 268 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Filipe
The Executors of Harmonian Order
Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Post Count: 2030
Location: Montmittel
35712 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
 Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:00 pm Post subject: |
  |
|
I have always found that while his methods may be rather harsh and such I believe that Leon Silverberg is the better strategist of those listed above. That doesnt mean that he always brings victory but he uses what he knows to the utmost. He takes risky measures to bring about the goals of those he works for regardless of whether it is good and just. That is the mark of a good strategist. Working for the goals of your boss through your own methods no matter what the cost. That is what I find to be the mark of a true strategist.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
zeal
The Zealots
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Post Count: 323
Location: bay area, california
0 Potch
400 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
although this wasn't an option on the poll i think Jowy is the best!
1. What makes this strategist your favorite?
cause he took adventage of sooooooo many people and took over a nation from pure strategy!
2. What scene do you like involving this strategist?
were he takes of Greenhill! that was great!
3. What strategic action performed by this character do you find memorable?
the Greenhill take over
_________________
First Bearer of the Scarlet Moon: zeal
Check out:
Car Accidents
I'm A Plus Size Model
Superslut
Rene Magritte/Surrealism |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Angelus Silverberg
Joined: 05 Jul 2004
Post Count: 108
Location: Crystal Valley
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Filipe wrote: |
| I have always found that while his methods may be rather harsh and such I believe that Leon Silverberg is the better strategist of those listed above. That doesnt mean that he always brings victory but he uses what he knows to the utmost. He takes risky measures to bring about the goals of those he works for regardless of whether it is good and just. That is the mark of a good strategist. Working for the goals of your boss through your own methods no matter what the cost. That is what I find to be the mark of a true strategist. |
Actually, Leon doesn't care which side wins. He does what ever he can to end wars the quickest with the least casualties, which ever side wins.
_________________
Living and dying, laughing and crying. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deleted User 1
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Post Count: 0
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
My favorite strategist is without a doubt Shu
1. What makes this strategist your favorite?
Well Shu he kinda has the attitude for being a strategist doesn't really get emotional and says it like it is.....Plus he's really smart and knows you have to make sacrifices
2. What scene do you like involving this strategist?
I like the scene when the dunan liberation army kills Luca Blight and then you see Shu walking through the fire to try to defeat Leon Silverberg....that says alot about his character
3. What strategic action performed by this character do you find memorable
When i think of Shu i always remember that whole searching in the river for the coin and when they find it he shows up and all then looks at Rio's hand and goes "With that rune on your hand we just may have a shot at winning this war" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gil-galad
Flame of the West
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Post Count: 6007
Location: Aya Sankha
2849957 Potch
200 Soldiers
46 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Shu, sexy, lol, j/k.
I dunno about strategy very much, but Shu seemed to have the best ideas, and he looked a little like Sephiroth with black hair. And the fact that he willing to sacrafice his life to the outcome of the battle is impressive.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoFlyZone
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Post Count: 86
Location: Queendom of Falena
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well I would have to say
Klaus Windamier
I dont know why but I allways liked him, no reason jsut thought he was cool...
NoFlyZone |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
King Jarrett
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Post Count: 30
Location: Dragon's Den
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i loved shu becuz his stragetys were awsome he always had a solution and ..i liked his style of thinking
_________________
-Dragon Knight 1st Rank
-Dragon's name: Jade
-Current: Travelling in Harmonia with Flik and Victor in search of Futch.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
And1balla
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Post Count: 112
Location: MI
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My vote goes to Mathiu Silverberg because he is a very clever stratregist and i really like alot of the ideas he had.
_________________
The Queendom of Falena Rules!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Weyoun
Jem'Hadar
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Post Count: 1838
Location: Kesh
221521 Potch
100 Soldiers
5 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Id have to say mathiu, he always had a good plan.
And it was sad at the end when he died.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sai Fujiwara
Executors of Divine Providence
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Post Count: 3848
Location: Montmittel
22038 Potch
0 Soldiers
5678 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hah, well I probably look pretty darn unoriginal going with the most popular choice on this poll, but I definitely have to go with Shu. The man looks awesome, and he always seemed cool under pressure. I've also said this before, and I'll say it again, the man reminds me of Zhou Yu from Dynasty Warriors 4. In that he looks like a badass, and is totally calm under pressure. Zhou Yu is a also a strategist for those who don't know the series too well.
As far as favorite scenes go, I think I liked the one where Nanami was yelling at him for using Pilika. He said something along the lines of "doing whatever it takes to win." Sure, to some, this might mean that the guy sounds like a total ass, but to me it shows dedication, and a strong desire to come out on top. Sure, it seems unethical, but war rarely is ethical, and you have do sometimes bend the rules to win.
Of course, the whole Pilika thing was probably his smartest action. Despite what a lot of people think, Shu knew what was going on. He was smart enough to deploy Flik's army to arrive in order to escort Riou and Teresa out of danger. Definite props for always having one up on his enemy. That's just the kinda' guy Shu was.
_________________
Happily Married to the Lovely Lady Chris Lightfellow! :D |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OptimisticPessimist
Dum Spiramus Tuebimur
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Post Count: 987
Location: Montmittel
84561 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oh, definitely Shu.
1. What makes this strategist your favorite?
Well, he's eye-candy for one. But to be serious, the real reason why I've liked him so far is that he embodies so many parts of Sun Tzu's Art Of War.
Some might call him unscrupulous in his methods (eg: Using Pilika as a temporary shield against Jowy's attack in Muse) or say that he relies on dumb luck (eg: when he acts as a decoy for Leon's army, leading to the infamous scene between him and Leon), but the fact is, in war, not everything can be calculated to the utmost precision. I prefer to endorse the fact that "all's fair in war".
2. What scene do you like involving this strategist?
I believe that would be the one where he arrives at the castle just in time to hear Viktor complain about him and to stand up for himself. It was amusing, to say the least.
3. What strategic action performed by this character do you find memorable?
The one involving Pilika. He understood that Hero II and Nanami would be angry with him for it, but he still went ahead and did it anyway. While he respects Hero II, as a strategist, he cannot let emotions get in the way of what he was supposed to do, which was to protect Hero II from any harm. Perhaps there are some people to think differently, but I felt his decision was for the best.
And as a reply to a post I found irritating on many levels:
| Stampede wrote: |
| Yes, Shu had something to lose in the process. But obviously not too much, because as he said himself, his business would continue. He joined, for all intents and purposes, originally to shut Apple up. |
I beg to defer. Shu is not as nonsensical and coldhearted as you make him out to be.
From the birth of the first living being, has any not died? If you were to define your life by gains and losses alone, which you would you define it as? Gain or Loss?
He will die if he joins the Hero II's army, he will die if he does not. Just a matter of sooner or later.
Shu has obviously accepted the above. It is equally obvious that you haven't.
And he did not join to "shut Apple up". He joined because he was moved by Apple's sincerity and the fact that Hero II and Apple found a coin that he didn't throw into the river.
| Stampede wrote: |
| Remember Shu's move with Ridley defecting? Sure, it was clever and threw off the enemy. But what it also did was threw off his OWN army. Nobody else knew of this plan but him and Ridley. Not, for example, his key field commanders like Flik, Viktor, Gilbert and the rest. Not the figurehead/leader of the army. Nobody. |
In Sun Tzu's Art Of War, one of the rules of war states that you must deceive your friends to deceive your enemies. Shu was fully prepared to withdraw that first battle. I do not believe that he was wrong for not telling his commanders on the trick withdrawal.
Think about it, if Ridley made a withdrawal with the knowledge of the commanders, would anyone be able to convince the Highland Army that they were weakened? Obviously not.
Would the Highlanders be lured into making a full frontal assault, encouraged by the fact that their enemy was now weakened, hence neglecting their flanks and back? Obviously not.
Instead, the war would have be drawn out, especially if the Highlanders found out about the plan and became more wary instead.
They had only one chance to strike, and I feel that Shu has dealt admirably with it.
Obviously you have not thought too much on the whys on Shu's choices of strategies.
| Stampede wrote: |
| You know what that says? Shu's command structure has all authority focused at the top. It also says to the people below that Shu doesn't trust them with jack. It doesn't exactly help morale or boost spirits. Never mind the fact that if Shu had been assassinated in mid-plan, the entire offensive would have fallen apart, because Shu has a particular joy for keeping his surprises to himself. |
You have not the maturity in comprehend why he did not do so.
If a strategist can be over-ruled by his liege who is, sometimes (though not in the Suikoden series), thousands of miles away from the battlefield, then his strategies would all been for nought. With inadequate knowledge and experience, the liege may just mess up everything and send thousands of soldiers to their deaths just by forcing the strategist to obey what he wants instead of what the strategist thinks is best. If that is the scenerio you were aiming for, you may as well skip the necessity of getting a strategist and direct the battlefield from where you are and send the army directly to their doom. There, no need to press any demands on the strategist.
Hero II has neither the experience or the knowledge to direct battle plans. And you're asking him to come up with a plan? Sure, Flik and Viktor are commanders with experience. But even they admit that they cannot out-manuvuer a force that is 5 times stronger than their own. You're counting on them?
And might I remind you, that when he feels that people like Apple are up to the task of managing a battle for once, he lets them to it.
| Stampede wrote: |
| Nobody else does such a risky, initiative-squelching move. Mathiu and Caesar always made sure to brief their fellow strategists and unit leaders. |
And Shu didn't? Oh good Lord, help me.
| Stampede wrote: |
| The Highland Army under Leon's guidance never once suffered one of those paniced collapses when a plan went awry like Dunan did a number of times. |
I might want to remind you that the "panic attacks" in the Dunan Army went perfectly for Shu's plans.
In comparison, while Leon's army never panicked, in the end, they were the ones who lost.
Nice stats, really.
Obviously you have never heard the words "You can lose a battle but win a war".
| Stampede wrote: |
| Discussing Albert is a bit tricky on this issue, since he was a very duplicitous type, so I'll just skip over him. He's not the best example of a strategist anyway, what with his loyalty so far in question. Nonetheless, Shu was apparently the only one who felt the need to stifle initiative by keeping plans all to himself. |
Of course, we should be extremely honest and all go for frontal attacks and let all the soldiers die. Smart move really.
| Stampede wrote: |
| The move with Ridley? Stuff like that makes your unit commanders unwilling to sieze an opportunity, because they no longer know when there's a secret plan by their own strategist they don't know about. |
Uh huh. So you're saying that the commanders don't trust Shu enough to believe that he will tell them whatever plan he deems important?
Right.
Really, why use a strategist when you do not trust the plans he made?
| Stampede wrote: |
| In short, Shu's command structure is fragile and no fun for anyone but him. |
I would love to say something extremely scathing about your choice of an end comment, but I will desist, and see if you are willing to defend your comments.
_________________
♪~ OptimisticPessimist ~♪
Tensui Star of Harmonia |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Child of The Sea God
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Post Count: 259
Location: C-Town
188289 Potch
2671 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Alber Silverberg
1. He was calm and cool headed. Albert was a master at manipulating even his allies. His looks were also special not the typical strategist look I would imagine. Last thing he can also summon and teleport!
2. My favorite scene is before the Zexens go burn down Karayan Village and Albert predicts Salome's strategy to break the siege.
3. I guess when he manipulated Luc and the rest of The Destroyers for his desired position in the Holy Kingdom of Harmonia that was a strategic action.
_________________
Life is like a play, you're given the role that fate hands to you.
-Me |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scarlet Assassin
Disciples of Death
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Post Count: 5509
Location: Xasta Grassland
331436 Potch
0 Soldiers
2442517 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Shu without a doubt.
1. What makes this strategist your favorite?
His calm demeanor is a major factor, but I find his methods to be better than any of the other strategists. While not of the Silverberg name he carries the wisdom, insight, and calculation of one. Shu's methods are absolute risks, he's a gambler and that's what makes him my favorite.
2. What scene do you like involving this strategist?
His conversation with Kiba before he sends him off to the mercenary fort (This is also the reason that Kiba is one of my favorite characters.) The two of them understood sacrifice, they knew that for victory to be accomplished, one had to take risks and sometimes, people had to die.
3. What strategic action performed by this character do you find memorable
His sacrifice of Kiba at the merc fort. For all the reasons stated above, this is by far the greatest strategic move in all of SUikoden because it is the most realistic.
EDIT: Also using Ridley's hatred of the humans as a tool for deception was genius, I was completely fooled when this happened.
_________________
Chief of Beat-em-up Honeys Division, Devoted Protector of Lady Tifa Lockhart |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Milan Fiori
Vanguard Elite
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Post Count: 14766
Location: Ceresfjellet
715991 Potch
0 Soldiers
7777 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
1. What makes this strategist your favorite?
I choose Mathiu because to me he was above sacrificing people in order to achieve his and the liberation armys goal. Shu purposely put Pilika in danger when he sent her to Joweston, I know it was to save Riou but I think Mathiu would have come up with a plan that would have had the same outcome but without all the risks, ot at least I would like to think that. Really I think Leon and Mathiu are on the same level of military genius that out class all others that we've seen, but Mathiu's compassion and stylish red scarf thing puts him above the others.
2. What scene do you like involving this strategist?
My first favorite scene is when Mathiu comes to help you recruit Leon. He puts his personal feels aside does what's best for the resistence.
My other scene is when you emerge from the floating fortress and Mathiu's hurt. Even though he's mortally wounded he still stops Flik from killing Sanchez. He was always thinking of the Liberation army.
3. What strategic action performed by this character do you find memorable?
This is where I'll give Shu some credit. Because of the way Suikoden Two's battle system was set up they were able to show Shu's strategic maneuvers better than Mathiu's. But his plan to take the Northern Checkpoint and rescue Viktor would be my favorite. He found a way around the spy and was able to make a surprise attack on both the checkpoint the Kasim's fortress.
_________________
Be awed by our prowess!
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scarlet Assassin
Disciples of Death
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Post Count: 5509
Location: Xasta Grassland
331436 Potch
0 Soldiers
2442517 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Shu purposely put Pilika in danger when he sent her to Joweston |
Shu knew that Pilika would be in no danger. He sent her because he knew that Jowy would never harm her (which brings up an interesting point. How did he know that? He wasn't around when Jowy was with Pilika.) It was a perfectly calculated risk, just like the rest of his plans. Shu's willingness to risk everything for huge gain is what made him so great. Every one of his gambles was perfectly calculated and executed. He was, in my mind, the perfect strategist.
_________________
Chief of Beat-em-up Honeys Division, Devoted Protector of Lady Tifa Lockhart |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
