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Chaos and Order
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Axiose

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:27 pm    Post subject: Chaos and Order Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Just thought I'd see if anyone could clear up the possibilities for me here. I was thinking at work today about Order and Choas.

Complete Order I get - everything in perfect harmony, no choice or freedom as everything is as it should be. That I get.

Chaos, I never really considered before, I just figured it was chaos and that was that. But surely for Choas to reign free would require life, or enough sentient beings to creat choas. But the object of choas is to be chaotic, this would end in the eventual (maybe in a fair amount of years) loss of all lives, which would create an absense of any choas as there are no agents to enact said chaos - this would then create order.

But it seems as though I'm missing something.
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Glen Cott

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

But would chaos not imply the random creation of such life?

Not just destruction....
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Agahnim

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

And Order is never as simple as that either, many people have their own definition of what order is, be it ordering people at gun point to follow certain rulings, or order as in some form of organisation, and peace.

Chaos could be definied as the anthesis of normality. Something that removes all that was once normal and perverts it into something abstract.
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Snowe Vingerhut

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Order
b : a regular or harmonious arrangement <the order of nature>
9 a : state or condition especially with regard to functioning or repair <things were in terrible order> b : a proper, orderly , or functioning condition <their passports were in order> <the phone is out of order>

Fliktor, you're right about order.
To have eternal order, there would have to be an eternal plan with no deviations from it.


Chaos-
2 a often capitalized : a state of things in which chance is supreme; especially : the confused unorganized state of primordial matter before the creation of distinct forms -- compare COSMOS b : the inherent unpredictability in the behavior of a natural system (as the atmosphere, boiling water, or the beating heart)
3 a : a state of utter confusion b : a confused mass or mixture <a chaos of television antennas>

While the same things that might happen in chaos as they would in order, the only difference would be that in chaos nobody would know for sure what would happen next.
So to have eternal chaos is like rolling the dice...you're just not sure how it's going to end.


Fliktor questioned the chaos and wrote:
But surely for Choas to reign free would require life, or enough sentient beings to creat choas. But the object of choas is to be chaotic, this would end in the eventual (maybe in a fair amount of years) loss of all lives, which would create an absense of any choas as there are no agents to enact said chaos - this would then create order.


As stated by the above definition, choas is just not knowing what happens next, be it a good occurance or a bad one.
From these definitions out of Webster's dic., it looks like chaos means to happen randomly and not knowing the end result, and order is to have it all planned out, but to know how it's all going down to the very end.

I think either one would be fairly stressful on humans as our emotional needs stand now.
I sure find that I have to balance out my random behavior between my routines to be in a good place emotionally.
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Axiose

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thanks for clearing up Chaos Greenunderground, at least in some parts of my mind lol.

And yes people, I realise there are many interpretations of Order, as there are of Chaos, but for there to be perfect order, there wouldn't be such leigh-way or interpretation. And considering we've glimpsed at the world of Order already in Suikoden III, it's pretty hard to misunderstand the misery that was that state of afairs.

A Chaotic world seems just as poor in my mind.
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Glen Cott

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If find it pretty difficult to visualise a world of total chaos. I can imagine that it would be pretty stressful trying to keep up with all the constant changes.

One day you a successful lawyer, the next you're a balloon!
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Axiose

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Not only that, but mortal implications would be astonishing.

One minute your a guy walking on the ground, then gravity doesn't apply any more in the same rules as before as suddenly you burn up in atmosphere.
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Seakida




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well I think that Chaos would be more of the Earthly Humanistic Elements, like the Sheild, we will be forced into an eternity of fighting wars against the gods, wether we notice or not. And Order would have to be Heavenly Humanistic Elements, or Sword. Order is our ability to settle the Chaos that is inevitable.

Ah I don't know where I'm going with this, but I do think that using Earthly and Heavenly will be a way to seperate the True Runes into Sword and Sheild.

But the sum of this is
Chaos=Our Fate.
Order=Our Will.

So then maybe the Soul Eater is Chaos because it is our fate to live and die, or the Sovereign Rune is Order because it is our will to rule over ourselves.
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Glen Cott

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In my mind, chaos would be more linked to will than fate, as our will is a changeable unpredictable ideal, whereas our fate is more of an inevitable boring ideal.

my 2 cents.
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Snowe Vingerhut

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

RandomGuy on the Q-tip, wrote:
One day you a successful lawyer, the next you're a balloon!


Hahahaha XD
This would most likely happen because of an over inflated ego.
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luc




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Chaos is Yin and Yang good and bad toghther not harmany not disaster.
Yuber wanted chaos a fight than peace life than death than life it goes on not staganted like the world Luc saw.
Yuber is a good guy didnt see that coming :!: Pesmerga is bad :shock: we trusted him
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luc




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

SSSSOOORRYYY my computer was slow I pressed more than once
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Agahnim

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thats why we can delete posts, you know.

GD
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Seakida




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ya, my pc goes slow and it doesn't allow me to do that?
:?
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ganon Dun wrote:
Thats why we can delete posts, you know.

You can only delete your own post (if not admins/mods) if the post is the last post on that thread. So by you posting that made luc's posts aren't the last ones anymore, luc could not delete his own posts any longer because your post is the last one in the topic. It might be better to PM the person than posting in the thread if such thing happens again in the future.
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