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Lord Rengo
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 Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: War Battles from Suikoden V *possible spoilers?* |
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Okay, I searched the first three pages for such a topic. It's took a while so I stopped at that. If for some reason I missed it or if the topic is already made elsewhere, I'm sorry.
Anyway, I want to know what you guys thought of the war battles from Suikoden V. I would also like to know what you think should be kept or thrown out for future games.
What I liked about the war battle system:
-Rock-paper-scissors type battle where cavalry beats infantry, infantry beats archer, and archer beats cavalry (I believe).
-Rune system. I loved being able to use the Star Rune or Dawn Rune in the middle of a group of enemies. I also loved being able to heal my units during battle as well.
-Water and land battles together. I liked the mixture.
What I didn't like:
-Real time. I didn't like it when I was trying to retreat with one unit, but before I could click it, another would go into battle. This would move the screen halfway across the map, so when that battle was over, I'd have to move back and by that time, it was usually too late.
Well, for future Suikodens, I wouldn't mind Real time. But they would need to refine it a bit. Allow the user to pause the game to travel and send orders. Unpause it and watch it unfold in real time or something. |
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Jhones
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I liked them. The levels of customization were nice.
Though the one thing I wish would happen was that instead of having static 100-150 hp units was that their HP levels should ahve increased with secondary and third generals since it takes a while to wittle down 200-300 hp enemy units when they each deal about 25-30 hp to each other, and Healing spells are in very short stock.
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poorguy171
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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I loved how they actually showed troop numbers. The only other game that we hear/see real troop numbers in is II, and that's only a few mentions during conversation. Thanks to V's HP system, we know how many troops we have, how many they have, and how many each side loses.
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Delsaber
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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I greatly enjoyed the war system once I finally got the hang of it, although I found a couple battles damn near impossible to beat due to the hectic reality of two dozen units running around in real-time. I never could pull off the Lordlake defense... thankfully the alternate battle at Lelcar was a good deal easier. Thank you, choke points.
I can only really think of a handful of improvements to this system. The first is graphical in nature, so it doesn't really matter, but I found it rather strange to see the Prince running around with a sword and shield. Giving each general their usual weapons would've looked better and made a lot more sense. Second, an easier method of pausing on the map for a quick breather or strategic overiew would've really helped in some places. I do remember something of the sort being in there already, but its exact nature escapes me at the moment.
Finally, on the subject of troop numbers, did they seem a little low to anyone else but me? Especially considering Arshtat's conversation with Lym regarding "a hundred thousand soldiers available to command", or words to that effect. Then again, perhaps that was an exaggerated account of Falena's overall military strength and not necessarily involving the internal armies of each house which probably saw the most action. |
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John Layfield
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Delsaber wrote: |
| Finally, on the subject of troop numbers, did they seem a little low to anyone else but me? Especially considering Arshtat's conversation with Lym regarding "a hundred thousand soldiers available to command", or words to that effect. Then again, perhaps that was an exaggerated account of Falena's overall military strength and not necessarily involving the internal armies of each house which probably saw the most action. |
Somewhat related gripe: The game gives five digits for the army numbers ("00000") but you'll barely break four digits by the end of the game anyway. What was the point of that?
The other thing I hated is stacked enemy units designed because the developers couldn't come up with another way to make a battle more difficult than to basically give the enemy heaps of HP to drag things out.
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Fudozukushi
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Delsaber wrote: |
| Finally, on the subject of troop numbers, did they seem a little low to anyone else but me? Especially considering Arshtat's conversation with Lym regarding "a hundred thousand soldiers available to command", or words to that effect. Then again, perhaps that was an exaggerated account of Falena's overall military strength and not necessarily involving the internal armies of each house which probably saw the most action. |
Well, you have to count the armies of both sides, plus all the troops garrisoned in Towns which we never see and there's also got to be large troop encampments in areas where there was no fighting.
Anyways I loved the Suikoden V battle system, it's now my favorite with Suikoden II's system in the number II slot (HA).
The real-time elements of the battle gave them a felling of reality when compared to the past games turn-based system. Plus finally getting our nameless army grunts back was a relief, I was so sick of IV's and III's system of only the Stars matter in the end and screwing the nameless grunts of being of any importence at all. Sure the combat abilities were a bit overpowered but still wading in Zerase's unit and blasting five enemy units for 500 damage was awe-inspiring.
The mix of water and land also made it feel like the river was used for more then just transportation to me, it was an actual strategic piece in the war. I wasn't bothered at all between the hip-hopping around between the two because pausing and quick selecting was fast and simple.
Also I must be one of the few who thought this but the War Battles were a tiny bit on the easy side. With the exception of a rogue Aracher unit pelting your 20/100 Cavalry most units are rarely in any danger of being killed off, and thankfully the list of fatal Stars is tiny compared to other games. |
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Sage
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Overall, I liked the war battles. Some were a bit more crazy than usual, although I wouldn't call them hard. It wasn't difficult to take out your opponents or out smart them, but the hard part for me was when I had 20 units to deal with in a small area. It was just messy and sometimes cost me a unit since I couldn't manage to select the one I wanted to select and kept getting a different one.
I would have liked to see the units change depending on who was in them though. Sure, the attack and such changed, but the HP never did and that was odd to me. I can understand levels of the leader making no difference (after all, some had no levels), but if you have more commanders, you should be able to handle more commandees.
| Rengo wrote: |
What I didn't like:
-Real time. I didn't like it when I was trying to retreat with one unit, but before I could click it, another would go into battle. This would move the screen halfway across the map, so when that battle was over, I'd have to move back and by that time, it was usually too late. |
The battle stopped when you selected a unit so all you had to do was select the unit that just finished fighting and move their cursor over to the other unit like you're telling them to move there. Then just cancel and quickly select your other unit. I did it lots of times and it saved me in a few cases.
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Flamo Bringer
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:08 am Post subject: |
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The "Rune Archer" troop is something new, which is cool too....
and the number of people in the army shown really impressed me too :) |
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Ujitsuna
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:14 am Post subject: |
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Suikoden V's system was a definate improvement over III/IV, I actually enjoyed the battles this time, instead of just wanting them to end quickly and targeting the leader or finishing the main objective in about 5 seconds. However, something quite ridiculous in the battles was how you could defeat an enemy and not lose one man, in alot of the battles you can just charge over and over, not lose any men and then bombard whats left of the enemy with runic archers, which nearly always finished them off (especially with the Dawn and Star rune).
I did like how land and naval battles were now combined, but at times it seemed to be quite tricky to effectively operate both at the same time, even if the game pauses when you select a unit. I found myself dealing with the land enemies and leaving my boats where they started so the enemy would not come out and attack them, leaving me with just one battle at a time to fight. As for future Suikodens, if they continue in this direction, I would not mind at all, it is an obvious improvement and a step in the right direction. |
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Lord Rengo
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Sage wrote: |
| The battle stopped when you selected a unit so all you had to do was select the unit that just finished fighting and move their cursor over to the other unit like you're telling them to move there. Then just cancel and quickly select your other unit. I did it lots of times and it saved me in a few cases. |
Yes, I know that. The problem was actually being able to click them. For example, one of my ships was ordered to attack another ship. However, an enemy ship that is strong against it is coming from the side. I try clicking on it, but right when I do, one of my land units all the way across the map gets into a battle. By the time that's done and I move the screen back to the ship, it's too late to try and retreat.
| Sage wrote: |
| Overall, I liked the war battles. Some were a bit more crazy than usual, although I wouldn't call them hard. It wasn't difficult to take out your opponents or out smart them, but the hard part for me was when I had 20 units to deal with in a small area. It was just messy and sometimes cost me a unit since I couldn't manage to select the one I wanted to select and kept getting a different one. |
I had that problem too. Sometimes I wanted to attack with one unit and retreat with another but because I'm not paying my full attention to the game I accidentally attack with the one I want to retreat with and retreat with the one I want to attack with. This, however, is not a problem with the war battle. It's a problem with my brain.
| Wes wrote: |
| Suikoden V's system was a definate improvement over III/IV |
I definately agree with that statement. I didn't mind Suikoden III's system, but it just didn't feel like there was an entire army fighting each other. It seemed just like a couple parties going at one another. Suikoden IV's was horrendous. I despised it with a passion. I dreaded the time I would have to fight. The funny thing is, though, it's the only Suikoden where you can actually practice the war battles. It's the worst one!
| Delsaber wrote: |
| Finally, on the subject of troop numbers, did they seem a little low to anyone else but me? Especially considering Arshtat's conversation with Lym regarding "a hundred thousand soldiers available to command", or words to that effect. Then again, perhaps that was an exaggerated account of Falena's overall military strength and not necessarily involving the internal armies of each house which probably saw the most action. |
Yes, when I saw 5 digits during the first war battle, I was thinking, these will get huge. I was greatly disappointed to find out you'd get no more than 1500 troops in any battle. |
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Flamo Bringer
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Another thing that impressed me is that we could attack the land enemies by the archer ship, which is good, because usually in many games, we can't attack the people on the land by the archer ship or something :) |
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Acheron
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| I liked the war battles. I wish there was a person like in Suikoden 4 that would let you have faux war battles since they were so fun, though. Maybe they can be staged battles using different arangments of Raftfleet or something clever like that. |
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Elzamine
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:33 am Post subject: |
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I liked the war system quite a bit as well.
The land and sea thing together was definitely nice.
I also noted the archer ships being able to snipe on land troops who were in range. Mmm realism, I like it!
Course contradicting that, the real time thing was a pain sometimes. When one unit is in danger and you just need to click to move them but 3 battles happen before you can even move to do so, it gets tedious. I found it a minimal point though and overall though the system was well done :)
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Starslasher
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| Lord rengo wrote: |
Yes, I know that. The problem was actually being able to click them. For example, one of my ships was ordered to attack another ship. However, an enemy ship that is strong against it is coming from the side. I try clicking on it, but right when I do, one of my land units all the way across the map gets into a battle. By the time that's done and I move the screen back to the ship, it's too late to try and retreat.
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Anotehr method that can be used is to press the Select button, bringing the battle to a halt, view map, place the cursor where you want it, and as soo as you were ready, close the menu and select away. That's what i did.
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Lonelion
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:15 am Post subject: |
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It definitely was better, it kept you on your toes you had to think fast on the multi-battle ones.
The ones where you attacked and they just defended certain places or battles was the easiest war battles.
A little cat and mouse work perfectly and them Beavers were awesome in the naval parts of those if you put the right trios together.
The real time was definitely something else,it was fine when you got use to it.
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